6
   

"threats of victory"? Can we remove "of victory" and the meaning will remain intact?

 
 
Reply Wed 28 Aug, 2013 04:00 am

Context:

Hooker, too, proved unable to defeat Lee's army; despite outnumbering the Confederates by more than two to one, he was humiliated in the Battle of Chancellorsville[167] in May 1863. Gen. Stonewall Jackson was mortally wounded by his own men during the battle and subsequently died of complications. Gen. Hooker was replaced by Maj. Gen. George Meade during Lee's second invasion of the North, in June. Meade defeated Lee at the Battle of Gettysburg[168] (July 1 to 3, 1863). This was the bloodiest battle of the war, and has been called the war's turning point. Pickett's Charge on July 3 is often considered the high-water mark of the Confederacy because it signaled the collapse of serious Confederate threats of victory. Lee's army suffered 28,000 casualties (versus Meade's 23,000).[169] However, Lincoln was angry that Meade failed to intercept Lee's retreat, and after Meade's inconclusive fall campaign, Lincoln turned to the Western Theater for new leadership. At the same time, the Confederate stronghold of Vicksburg surrendered, giving the Union control of the Mississippi River, permanently isolating the western Confederacy, and producing the new leader Lincoln needed, Ulysses S. Grant.

More:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War
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Type: Question • Score: 6 • Views: 718 • Replies: 8
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OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Aug, 2013 04:49 am
@oristarA,
oristarA wrote:


Context:

Hooker, too, proved unable to defeat Lee's army; despite outnumbering the Confederates by more than two to one, he was humiliated in the Battle of Chancellorsville[167] in May 1863. Gen. Stonewall Jackson was mortally wounded by his own men during the battle and subsequently died of complications. Gen. Hooker was replaced by Maj. Gen. George Meade during Lee's second invasion of the North, in June. Meade defeated Lee at the Battle of Gettysburg[168] (July 1 to 3, 1863). This was the bloodiest battle of the war, and has been called the war's turning point. Pickett's Charge on July 3 is often considered the high-water mark of the Confederacy because it signaled the collapse of serious Confederate threats of victory. Lee's army suffered 28,000 casualties (versus Meade's 23,000).[169] However, Lincoln was angry that Meade failed to intercept Lee's retreat, and after Meade's inconclusive fall campaign, Lincoln turned to the Western Theater for new leadership. At the same time, the Confederate stronghold of Vicksburg surrendered, giving the Union control of the Mississippi River, permanently isolating the western Confederacy, and producing the new leader Lincoln needed, Ulysses S. Grant.

More:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War
The meaning will not remain intact.
There can be threats of other things,
e.g. threats of sabotage.





David
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Aug, 2013 07:07 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Does victory here refer to the comprehensive victory of American Civil War?
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Aug, 2013 07:17 am
@oristarA,
No, you can't remove victory because the Confederacy was still very much a thread, but after this point they no longer had the ability to invade and crush the Union forces, but it doesn't follow that they could be defeated. The best they could hope for at that time was stalemate.

I'm just telling you my interpretation of the text, no doubt someone else will come along and give us all a History lesson.
PUNKEY
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Aug, 2013 08:23 am
threats of victory (in other future battles)
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Aug, 2013 09:55 am
@oristarA,
Quote:

Hooker, too, proved unable to defeat Lee's army; despite outnumbering the Confederates by more than two to one, he was humiliated in the Battle of Chancellorsville[167] in May 1863. Gen. Stonewall Jackson was mortally wounded by his own men during the battle and subsequently died of complications. Gen. Hooker was replaced by Maj. Gen. George Meade during Lee's second invasion of the North, in June. Meade defeated Lee at the Battle of Gettysburg[168] (July 1 to 3, 1863). This was the bloodiest battle of the war, and has been called the war's turning point. Pickett's Charge on July 3 is often considered the high-water mark of the Confederacy because it signaled the collapse of serious Confederate threats of victory. Lee's army suffered 28,000 casualties (versus Meade's 23,000).[169] However, Lincoln was angry that Meade failed to intercept Lee's retreat, and after Meade's inconclusive fall campaign, Lincoln turned to the Western Theater for new leadership. At the same time, the Confederate stronghold of Vicksburg surrendered, giving the Union control of the Mississippi River, permanently isolating the western Confederacy, and producing the new leader Lincoln needed, Ulysses S. Grant.


No, Ori, it means what it is limited to. It means what OmSig said. "victory" means 'victory' in ongoing battles. Notice that it doesn't state categorically that there couldn't be more individual battle victories by the South. It only says [perhaps with hindsight] that this point in time, July 3, was the high water mark, the pinnacle, the top point of Confederate power/ability to win major battles.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Aug, 2013 10:02 am
@oristarA,
oristarA wrote:
Does victory here refer to the comprehensive victory of American Civil War?
I take the inference that it does,
because of the reference to the Confederate "high water mark".





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Aug, 2013 10:04 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
No, you can't remove victory because the Confederacy was still very much a thread, but after this point they no longer had the ability to invade and crush the Union forces, but it doesn't follow that they could be defeated. The best they could hope for at that time was stalemate.

I'm just telling you my interpretation of the text, no doubt someone else will come along and give us all a History lesson.
I took the thread to concern the logic of grammar,
not the logic of history.





David
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Aug, 2013 10:09 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
I took the thread to concern the logic of grammar,
not the logic of history.


And you were right in doing that, Dave.
0 Replies
 
 

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