Why is it so important to refute Christianity?

We already have such a class of people--they're usually referred to as politicians, however . . .

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patiodog wrote:

I think it flows both ways -- clearly (to me) the imagery springs from the human imagination, and I'm no stranger to grim thoughts. I do think, however, that religion has the potential to create a sort of feed-forward mechanism with these sorts of things -- especially if religion suffuses every aspect of life. If every waking moment is spent contemplating the prospect of martyrdom -- of the holiness of Christ's suffering, for instance -- it is not unreasonable to expect that it might become a sort of goal.

I don't mean to say that religion is the source of violent behavior (be it inwardly or outwardly directed). We are chimps, after all. But people are very malleable critters, and received ideas are internalized and do influence behavior.

Hmmm - yes- I agree that welcoming in and obsessing over such things can have a very negative effect - sort of a nasty recursive feedback loop.....

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I had lunch with my best friend - a politician - today - and I resent that comment.

Stuff the christians - POLITICIANS are the ones who are persecuted!

I shall start a religion about it....

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Onward Wabbitian Soldiers
Marching as to War . . .

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Don'y mock me.....my wrath shall smite thee...

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truth
Dlowan, as I see it our three greatest categories for scapegoating are, politicians, lawyers, and bureaucrats. The last one is the least justified. Politicians have to dissemble as a necessity for the passing of legislation and re-election; lawyers sometimes chase ambulances and are often the beneficiaries of conflicts which they did not instigate, but the behavior of bureaucrats is virtually totally prescribed by the very nature of bureaucracies.

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But the bureaucrats appeal to an arbitrary higher authority is quite like the religious appeal, isn't it?

Why must the form be completed in triplicate? Because it's written, that's why.

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Oh god! I was a bureaucrat for six horrible weeks!!!

They kept moving me so I could learn all the jobs.

This meant wherever I went were the exact forms I had had to do weird stuff to in the last position - I mean the EXACT forms - i had filled them in meself. I then had to do other weird things to them - then I was passed along and met the same forms and had to do the next lot of weird stuff to them.

I am incapable - almost - of learning by rote - I have to UNDERSTAND - or I forget.

I begged for a flow chart - something which would tell me what the forms were for, why I had to do weird stuff with them - what the meaning of the different colours was - what went where and why.

Nobody could/would tell me!!!!

I made soooo many mistakes. Only good thing was that, because the forms and I were moving together, when irate people came tome waving them and yelling about the wrong weird things that had been done to them, I could look outraged and say: "I am so sorry - the person who did this is new - and she just isn't cutting it. I will speak to her."

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Hmmm. I do all right with arbitrary order, which is why I ended up spending three blighted years proofreading other people's grant proposals, looking at forms through a grid in Acrobat to make sure the margins were just so, getting out a ruler and sampling documents to make sure they average number of characters per inch did not exceed a prescribed number, making sure these copies included a biosketch and these didn't... Hell, I tell ya.

On the other hand, pretty much everything is arbitrary when it comes down to it, so it puts me in pretty good stead with this biology stuff. "Why does this signalling pathway work like that?" "Because that's the way it works. Duh."

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In a very real sense, the earliest clerics (from whence, clerk--no accident, that) in the temple societies were bureaucrats. Cuneiform writing in its most primitive examples represents inventory worksheets, disbursement orders, collection schedules. The priests had parlayed their impressive mumbo jumbo skills into social control, and it was necessary to deliver the goods both literally and figuratively to maintain their positions. Of course, whereas it is true that the bureaucrat will declare this must be done thus, as so it is written, there is usually some path of appeal to that higher authority. But with the priest? "I'm sorry son, i just got back from asking god, and she says you have to do what i say."

Interestingly, although ancestor worship has been common in China for centuries, higher order theism such as arose in the middle east never occurred. The bureaucracy arose--the Mandarinate--but the temple society apparently "died aborning."

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Well, the lower level bureaucrats (priests) still have to go to management (bishops) to get approval for changes, and for major policy shifts, the administration (the Vatican) will have to be involved. And the administration can be so arbitrary and inscrutable that they may as well be deities.

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OK, question:

If some here feel compelled to refute Christianity because of the 'mind-control' aspect, which accompanies religion--why do you protect Islam?

It is the fastest growing religion... and possesses the same 'mind-control' over its' adherents.

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Lucid writing from all. I agree most recently with Set and Dlow (having two minutes before agreed with Patiopup.. but that is a good thing, y'make me think. Haven't reread the thread in a while. But other posters on the last few pages have spoken re their own views, uh, sparkily. Interesting thread.

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Sofia wrote:

OK, question:

If some here feel compelled to refute Christianity because of the 'mind-control' aspect, which accompanies religion--why do you protect Islam?

It is the fastest growing religion... and possesses the same 'mind-control' over its' adherents.

Christians seem much more prevalent on this forum than muslims. I suspect that's the only reason.

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Sofia wrote:

If some here feel compelled to refute Christianity because of the 'mind-control' aspect, which accompanies religion--why do you protect Islam?

It is the fastest growing religion... and possesses the same 'mind-control' over its' adherents.

I have no special feelings for Islam. I think it's equally absurd and is currently manifesting itself in particularly absurd ways.

It represents the same blind belief that just about every religion does and represents a disregard for truth while choosing instead zeal in belief.

I have a problem with this no matter what the belief. Be it a political belief or a religious one. Religious ones are designed to pre-empt any appeal to reason (appeal to faith) , so I find them particularly dangerous.

It's like an argument saying that "republicans are bad, just have faith in this principle and you will see".

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How would you define blind belief?

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Belief that has as an argument for its acceptance its very acceptance as a prerequisite.

In other words, just truly believe that I am right and you'll see what I mean.

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How could a person be lead to truly believe in something then, if acceptance is a prerequisite, unless he/she was born to accept it? By using your definition, I would say blind belief is a contradiction that cannot logically exist. The only definition of blind belief that makes sense to me would be belief in something without proof.

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I didn't say that blind belief is inherent belief. I said that I consider beliefs that argue for blind acceptance are.

Belief without proof is what I am, in fact, talking about.

Many religious ask you to believe in "things unseen".

Hebrews 11:

Quote:

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

But without faith it is impossible to please him(god): for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him

Religions ask people to believe blindly (i.e. have faith). Heck right there it says without believing blindly god is displeased (which is not considered to be a good thing).

A stated pre-requisite to the proof is often blind belief.

"believe and you will see"

"you will find your answers in heaven"

etc

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Sofia wrote:

If some here feel compelled to refute Christianity because of the 'mind-control' aspect, which accompanies religion--why do you protect Islam?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't have any more respect for Islam than I do for Christianity.

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Why is it so important to refute Christianity?

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