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Do we really have to take military action to Syria?

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Sep, 2013 12:58 pm
Gotta go back to the football game…and Nancy and I are going to go into the hot tub for a bit.

But my point is (in case I was being to subtle) that it is easy to second guess other people’s decisions…and to come up with “solutions” to complex problems…when you do not have the power to implement those decisions.

It is MUCH harder when you have the power.

Just asking everyone to keep that in mind.
edgarblythe
 
  3  
Reply Sun 8 Sep, 2013 01:04 pm
@Frank Apisa,
It is less easy to make people undead in case you mistakenly kill some.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Sun 8 Sep, 2013 01:06 pm
@JPB,
IF and when that happens, his approval rating will sink to a level that his legacy will no longer show that he was even average. We all know from history that just because a president serves for two terms doesn't mean they have the approval of the American people or the consensus of the world.

A black black sheep is not a good position during contemporary times or history.

Obama's decision to increase the troops in Afghanistan by 50,000, his approval of detaining Americans without legal rights, his approval of torture, his NSA program, and his approval to have a war in Syria will be too much to overcome.

He is a pariah.

Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Sep, 2013 01:30 pm
@JPB,
JPB wrote:
And, how do you think central and south america became primarily christian?
There's just now an interesting special (and unique) exhibition in the art museum of the Archdiocese of Paderborn (next bigger city) "Credo - how Europe was Christianised" ... ... ... Wink
(The exhibition explores the Christianisation of medieval Europe, covering aspects such as the foundations of the missionary church and its spread through the Roman Empire, the Christianisation of Ireland, the conversion of the Anglo-Saxons, the missionary initiatives from the British Isles to the Continent, and the Christianisation of Scandinavia and of Lithuania under the rule of the Jagellonians.)
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Sep, 2013 02:18 pm
According to (now) various German media sources, citing German intelligence, Syrian government forces may have carried out a chemical weapons attack near Damascus without the personal permission of President Bashar al-Assad
Syrian brigade and division commanders had been asking the presidential palace to allow them to use chemical weapons for the past four-and-a-half months, according to radio messages intercepted by German spies, but permission was always denied, according to those media reports.
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Sun 8 Sep, 2013 02:21 pm
@cicerone imposter,
He's a clever ******* pariah though. Suckering the electorate with what is known as the "deep chest tone convictions" and fancy footwork with the new electronic systems.

And quitting smoking during his term is a shocking thing to do in a brain job. It's having your imagination lobotomised. And having the Missus force it on him. We are a very long way from Andrew Jackson I must say. From the Tsars to Putin is nowhere near as far.

I have known a lot of quitters and the quality of their conversation goes off a cliff. They become tense and irritable and more jerkier in their movements.

Most pub smokers here are against allowing smoking inside pubs again. They say they have met more interesting people in the huddles outside the door than they ever thought existed. In those pubs which have provided good outside accomodation for smokers it is often the case that the pub itself is nearly empty and the heated tent for the smokers is heaving with customers: smokers and non-smokers. The latter lot being heard to say that what's left in the pub is not worth stirring out for. And that a bit of secondary tobacco smoke is a price worth paying for the scene in the tent.

I spotted Mr Kerry on the news coming down the airplane steps. Right down the middle. The handrails on either side not being required evidently. He didn't have his elbows as high as Obarmy does but they were half way there. I think it must be the nearest they can get to the pole tight-rope walkers use to steady themselves. Although it might be that stumbling and falling with your hands by your side is more dangerous than holding them half ready. I should know. I have stumbled and fallen with my hands in my pockets. More than once.

They have got themselves into a position in which as soon as they touch the handrail their enemies claim they are starting to dodder.

Some writers, and other artists, have made their reputation as a smoker and then quit to give them more time to enjoy their success and the fans of their first thing are provided with drivel from thereon but have to try to maintain its worth to justify their being a fan.

Poll the smokers on Syria.



What I would do is have a few advisers with me and be in deep conversation with them so that we could descend the steps debating and stopping now and again while a point is being made. Like Walter Shandy and Uncle Toby did when using stairs and discussing important philosophical fine points.

Try half jogging down the stairs sometime without touching the bannisters.

cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Sun 8 Sep, 2013 02:28 pm
@spendius,
I don't believe for a moment that Obama is clever or smart. I see him as engaged in politics for power without understanding how many wrong decisions he's made.
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Sun 8 Sep, 2013 02:34 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
According to (now) various German media sources, citing German intelligence, Syrian government forces may have carried out a chemical weapons attack near Damascus without the personal permission of President Bashar al-Assad
Syrian brigade and division commanders had been asking the presidential palace to allow them to use chemical weapons for the past four-and-a-half months, according to radio messages intercepted by German spies, but permission was always denied, according to those media reports.


Do we hope that's true or otherwise? Disobeying orders is what rebels do. The word "rebel" covers those commanders. Which makes Putin's case.

Where are those commanders now?
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Sep, 2013 02:35 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

I don't believe for a moment that Obama is clever or smart. I see him as engaged in politics for power without understanding how many wrong decisions he's made.

blinded by his faith in is intellect and his ability to talk others into following him. Obama has a massive ego problem.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Sep, 2013 02:39 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Quote:
According to (now) various German media sources, citing German intelligence, Syrian government forces may have carried out a chemical weapons attack near Damascus without the personal permission of President Bashar al-Assad
Syrian brigade and division commanders had been asking the presidential palace to allow them to use chemical weapons for the past four-and-a-half months, according to radio messages intercepted by German spies, but permission was always denied, according to those media reports.


Do we hope that's true or otherwise? Disobeying orders is what rebels do. The word "rebel" covers those commanders. Which makes Putin's case.

Where are those commanders now?

it is difficult to understand why Assad did not provide this information himself if it were true.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Sun 8 Sep, 2013 02:49 pm
@hawkeye10,
It's called "failure to communicate." Something very common with Obama.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Sun 8 Sep, 2013 03:02 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
it is difficult to understand why Assad did not provide this information himself if it were true.


Maybe to create the confusion we see. At times an almost knickers down situation.

"Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf."

Philip Larkin.

We need to wait for the intelligence to be authenticated. Which won't be as easy to do as it is to say.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Sun 8 Sep, 2013 03:06 pm
@hawkeye10,
Suppose the "commanders" were going over to the FSA and did it to bring us in on that side. Plenty of Assad's people have gone over. There is a great deal to play for.
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Sun 8 Sep, 2013 03:06 pm
While watching that football game...there were several times where I realized that a pass play should have been a running play...where I realized that a cut to the left should have been to the right.

Right after the play...it became evident.

Obama is making decisions...and there are people here who have a vested interest in picturing him as a dummy...a person unable or unwilling to do the right thing.

Picking the right play...or the right direction for a run is a cream puff after the play has been run.
spendius
 
  3  
Reply Sun 8 Sep, 2013 03:18 pm
@Frank Apisa,
The only trouble with that silly metaphor is that the football play was run the way you saw it was run and the play in Syria might have been run in a variety of ways none of which you have seen.

Only future historians will see the play-back. And it will be pretty fuzzy to them.

I'm pretty sure Obarmy is willing to do the right thing. It's just that nobody knows what the right thing is. They are working on the least wrong thing. Each party on its own account.

hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Sep, 2013 03:24 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Suppose the "commanders" were going over to the FSA and did it to bring us in on that side. Plenty of Assad's people have gone over. There is a great deal to play for.

it would be particularly offensive if that was the situation yet obama was running around chanting "I have to punch that creep Assad!".....American intell is not completely useless, we would know that much.
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Sun 8 Sep, 2013 03:35 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

The only trouble with that silly metaphor is that the football play was run the way you saw it was run and the play in Syria might have been run in a variety of ways none of which you have seen.

Only future historians will see the play-back. And it will be pretty fuzzy to them.

I'm pretty sure Obarmy is willing to do the right thing. It's just that nobody knows what the right thing is. They are working on the least wrong thing. Each party on its own account.




Stick to cricket, Spendius.

Obviously nobody knows what the right thing to do is. That is part of what I am saying.

One can look at the result of what we attempt...and assess whether we should have done that or done something else. Of course, if we had done the "something else" that may have had even worse results.

But I love the fact that I bother you so much you disagree with me even when you do not know what you are talking about. It makes me aware that I have power over you.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 8 Sep, 2013 03:37 pm
@hawkeye10,
the line is that Assad was "responsible", notice they dont say he approved. it is likely a miss use of the word though, as there can be no responsibility where there is no ability to Control.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Sep, 2013 03:52 pm
@spendius,
Agree fully with the "least wrong thing, each party on its own account". There's nothing simple about this.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Sun 8 Sep, 2013 03:57 pm
@JPB,
The decision to play without fully understanding what the game is all about is a lose-lose option.

Seems like shooting oneself in the foot, then claim it was an accident.
0 Replies
 
 

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