46
   

Do we really have to take military action to Syria?

 
 
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Tue 27 Aug, 2013 04:03 am
@gungasnake,
Quote:
Bork Obunga hasn't.


They all want their own little war don't they?

Pacifists don't get elected. War is the natural state of things when flags exist. Policy is just the extension of war by other means during lulls in actual fighting.

State/Nation = War.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Aug, 2013 04:20 am
@spendius,
According to CBS, the US government is going to release a report within the next day or two setting out why it believes that the Assad regime was responsible for last week's chemical weapons attack.

And the UK is making contingency plans for military intervention as well ...
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Aug, 2013 04:28 am
Russia and China are warning of a catastrophic result to such intervention.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  2  
Reply Tue 27 Aug, 2013 05:37 am
@edgarblythe,
From the article
Quote:
Firing cruise missiles avoids exposing pilots to Syria's air defense system, which is large though mostly outdated. Breaching the air defenses would probably involve numerous aircraft and would entail significant risks to pilots.


How long before the civilian casualty count from our missiles exceeds that of the chemical attack?
Ragman
 
  2  
Reply Tue 27 Aug, 2013 08:35 am
@JPB,
I just can't believe the repetitiveness of this. Are they really that dense in Wash...or do they think the American public is?

Agreed that this issue is a no-win but WTF...the stakes are far too high the type of military involvement they're bandying about in the press.

The horror is the civilians will suffer the most...which was precisely the reason they claim for wanting to be involved.

I just read that something like 40-50k civilians have been streaming into Iraq. How desperate they must be!
0 Replies
 
IRFRANK
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Aug, 2013 09:20 am
@ossobuco,
Quote:
Whatever - I strongly don't want this to happen.


I agree and I think most of the American people would agree. We will see if our 'representatives' follow our desires or the desires of the money machine that supports them.

I'm pretty sure I know what to expect. Halliburton, et. al, is still a powerful influence.
0 Replies
 
IRFRANK
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Aug, 2013 09:21 am
@spendius,
Quote:
State/Nation = War.


Yes
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Aug, 2013 09:42 am
Nobody seems to be doubting that a chemical weapon, probably sarin was used, the question is who used it. Apparently sarin is relatively easy to make, so it's quite feasible to think the rebels have got hold of some.

The whole thing is being split down sectarian lines with the Arab League condemning the Assad regime and Iran claiming that they have proof, satellite images and such, that Assad was not responsible.

What the West shouldn't do is prejudge any investigation like what happened in Iraq. The team should be allowed to investigate as best they can without any pressure from the West, they've got a difficult enough job as it is. No action should be taken before their findings are made public.

hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Aug, 2013 10:01 am
@izzythepush,
the main problem is the Obama line " we dont care who did it, we assume the government did it and now we are going to attack the government".

like the US government needed to offer any more proof that it does not give a fig about either truth or justice.
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Aug, 2013 10:54 am
@hawkeye10,
Full write-up by NYT here

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/27/world/middleeast/blasts-in-the-night-a-smell-and-a-flood-of-syrian-victims.html?hp&_r=1&
0 Replies
 
Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Aug, 2013 11:04 am
Let's say I agree conditionally to retaliate under certain circumstances. Who would you retaliate against that you could be positive was responsible for the gassing?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Aug, 2013 12:35 pm
Robert Fisk asks: Does Obama know he’s fighting on al-Qa’ida’s side?
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Tue 27 Aug, 2013 12:44 pm
I sort of wish our government would ignore Syria for a while.
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Aug, 2013 12:44 pm
This guy wants them to take out both sides -- all within two or three weeks.

Quote:
I'm 24 years old, I live with my five brothers and three sisters and my parents. I work in a company for computers. My two married brothers, who used to live in their own houses, decided to come and join us with their children. We as a family thought we should be together in case a war broke out. [...]

Practically we are working, but we earn nothing. I hardly can cover my expenses but can give nothing to my family. [...] Before the events, there was micro buses that were used by common people, but now they have disappeared because of the checkpoints and because they were for long distances. You have to take a taxi all the time if you want to go anywhere. Taxis are so expensive, and the Syrian lire is losing its value day by day. [...]

For the children, no child goes to kindergarten, as kindergartens are shut down. For primary schools, all pupils who live nearby their schools, they can go to schools and they are accompanied by their parents. Most of the pupils in secondary schools have gone to Egypt or Jordan to complete their studies or to Europe.

We take the children to the nearby park to spend some time and head back home. There are only a few places now in Damascus that you can go to entertain yourself. Shops are open if you want to buy clothes or shoes or food.

The Damascus resident says "We expect the US attack soon":

We will be so happy if the US and UK attack Syria. I believe the US and British army would attack all the regime's defences as well as some positions of the [Free Syrian Army]. They are not happy with all the fighters who are working with FSA. [...]

I think any attack would be launch by US and UK will be for the interest of the Syrian people. Any new regime coming to Syria wont be worse than what we are going through now.[...]

We are preparing ourselves for the war. We believe the war would be against the government not the Syrian people. We have bought lots of tinned food and pickles and gas tubes in fear there will be shortage. We bought lots of bread still we are worried power will go off and all the food will be rotten.. We do not expect the war to last for more than two to three weeks. [...]Guardian Live blog
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Aug, 2013 12:54 pm
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
I sort of wish our government would ignore Syria for a while.


They would if it wasn't for all the information technology we have sold and the rabid thirst for dramatic news we seem to have.

Didn't Mr Nixon say "**** the Lira" when he was festooned with miles of tapes in which the smoking gun might be anywhere. I read that he did.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Aug, 2013 01:06 pm
@mysteryman,
Quote:
Remember, we need to approval of the UN before we can act, AND we need to have been attacked.


More than being attacked is needed which is why the invasion of Afghanistan was an illegal invasion/war crime.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Tue 27 Aug, 2013 01:07 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Quote:
Well, you're right, of course, as far as the legality of it goes.


No, MM's not right which is why you were also wrong in your exceedingly lame thread, Merry.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Tue 27 Aug, 2013 01:09 pm
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
Haven't we had enough yet?


Jesus, Edgar, WE WE WE! Americans are way way way to ******* self-absorbed - even the thinking ones like you.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Aug, 2013 01:12 pm
@JPB,
I hope that blog doesn't influence any decisions which I don't suppose it will.

Some say that all this trouble in the region is down to the failure in 1956 and the Grauniad contributed to that failure so it looks well being on the war-mongering side now.

My impression is that they don't know what to do but fear doing nothing.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Tue 27 Aug, 2013 01:25 pm
@spendius,
Dumping the Security Council would be a good first step but that's a when pig's fly issue.
 

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