BigEgo
 
Reply Sat 24 Aug, 2013 09:21 am
But is there a difference between the two?

Republicans vs. tea party sets 2016 stage
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Type: Discussion • Score: 13 • Views: 2,364 • Replies: 32
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Kolyo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Aug, 2013 02:24 pm
Yes, clearly there's a difference. According to the article, tea baggers differ from other conservative Republicans in their philosophy on how to govern -- specifically on the question of whether it's worth threatening a government shutdown in order to get their way.

My God, I am so glad to be a British citizen right now...
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Aug, 2013 06:28 pm
@Kolyo,
actually, the US is coming out of recewsion fster than urope and Japan because weve not really embraced the "Austerity" that the tebaggers have espoused. Whereas Europe has. Our teabaggers are screaming on the road to cut deficits when the real return to health (and increased revenue streams) will only come as a government "Spends" its way out of recession
Kolyo
 
  2  
Reply Sat 24 Aug, 2013 07:06 pm
@farmerman,
Well that's all well and good. Lord Keynes would be pleased. But in and out of recessions Britain (like the rest of Europe) still takes care of its poor.

The reason I want to apply for a bright new red passport right now has to do with tea-party clowns like Liz Cheney (mentioned in the article), who doesn't think Wyoming's conservative Republican senator is militant enough, and who believes political obstruction is the best way to go about getting what you want in Washington. If those lunatics come after my food stamps, I'll just eat less. But if they start talking about abolishing my Section 8 housing subsidy I may have to bolt to the UK in order to avoid going back on the streets.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Sun 25 Aug, 2013 04:11 am
@Kolyo,
Well you are certainly welcome to try anything you wish. If you don't see that you have any responsibilities to be part of the solution.
The entire Cheney family has been vocally supportive of industrial welfare .
They, as dearhearts of the teabag movement, don't see the need for revenue enhancement as part of any solution. Dicj Cheney had railroaded through a policy that the EP and Dept Interiro have NO authority to uphold pollution laws on the (then) renewed oil and gas industry.They have, in effect, given away our natural national
patrimony to the frackers without decent compensation. Its a shameful giveaway that we shall later pay for as the gas supplies begin to dwindle in 40 or more years.(And you watch, there will be no investment in alternative energy ideas until its too late)

I believe that teabaggers will have their day in the stratigraphic column of government "Ideas" and they will fade away as a third party.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Aug, 2013 04:22 am
To get back to the original question, this will be an interesting phenomenon to watch. One hopes the tea baggers have had their day. Certainly they have a big hole in their ideology, although they are constitutionally incapable of seeing it. Government interferes all the time, and it interferes on behalf of capital. As FM notes, deregulation and/or selective regulation allow corporations to exploit resources, labor and securities trading to their own advantage. Protection of the average citizen (i.e., those without significantly large amounts of capital) is thrown under the bus. This hurts us all, and for as long as obstructionist tea baggers sit in Congress, for that long we will be more easily victimized.

EDIT: I don't see traditional Republican ideology to be much of an improvement, but the traditional party just rants about regulation and big government rhetorically, while having the good sense to compromise and work with the Democrats.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Aug, 2013 04:35 am
@Kolyo,
You'll have no problems getting a passport, passing the habitual residence test is another matter entirely.
http://www.housing-rights.info/habitual-residence-test.php
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Aug, 2013 04:47 am
@izzythepush,
means tests?
Here, our section 8 housing is a mess. Weve established a system that has no protection for landlords who rent to section 8 clients.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Aug, 2013 04:52 am
@farmerman,
Not so much a means test, as in a test to establish if someone is habitually resident. If you go back and forth between the two countries a lot you'll probably qualify, but if you uppped sticks and moved away about ten years ago you won't qualify.

A lot of white (British) South Africans who left after the fall of apartheid came a cropper of this rule.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Aug, 2013 05:13 am
@izzythepush,
we usually intercept such folks in the desert and garrote them before they make it too far into the mother country. Otherwise we have to rent em free housing that they are allowed to trash at our expense
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Aug, 2013 05:14 am
@farmerman,
Oh dear, was I thinking that or did I say tht out loud?
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Aug, 2013 06:05 am
@farmerman,
Or did you just do it?
0 Replies
 
Kolyo
 
  2  
Reply Sun 25 Aug, 2013 12:16 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
Not so much a means test, as in a test to establish if someone is habitually resident. If you go back and forth between the two countries a lot you'll probably qualify, but if you uppped sticks and moved away about ten years ago you won't qualify.


Thanks for the heads up. I probably wouldn't qualify then, as I have always lived in America. My father was born in the U.K., and I'm merely a British citizen by descent, a lot like those South Africans. Pop did very well for himself in the US and never paid a dime quid towards supporting NHS or your state housing programs.

(Fleeing the country of my birth was only "Plan D", anyhow.)
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Aug, 2013 12:34 pm
@Kolyo,
If you get a job offer there shouldn't be a problem, you can come and live and work here, but social housing and such, no chance.
0 Replies
 
Kolyo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Aug, 2013 12:43 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

... If you don't see that you have any responsibilities to be part of the solution.


As Thomas likes to say, "ought implies can".
To paraphrase Cicerone, you can't fix stupid.
To complete the syllogism ... I don't see that I have any responsibility for fixing the US.

For what it's worth, though, farmer, I'm very politically active.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Aug, 2013 12:48 pm
@Kolyo,
How often have you visited the UK, and for how long? Would it be enough to say you 'habitually reside' in the UK?

Were you educated in the UK?

Those are the sort of questions you'll be asked.
Kolyo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Aug, 2013 01:45 pm
@izzythepush,
And I'd fall flat on every question. I don't begrudge the UK for denying me housing assistance, because I don't think people should be allowed to live the life of Riley in a low-tax country during their childhood and then go sponge off some quasi-socialist country when they get in trouble as adults.

If things start going better for me, though, I'll definitely think about getting a job in Britain.
Kolyo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Aug, 2013 01:53 pm
Also, just in case anyone gets the idea from this thread that I universally hate all Republicans, I'll just add that there are some I respect (and whose views I respect): Sheila Bair, Susana Martinez, George H. W. Bush -- the list is longer than you'd think.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Aug, 2013 01:58 pm
@Kolyo,
I wouldn't describe us as quasi-socialist, not by a long shot.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Aug, 2013 02:11 pm
@Kolyo,
Quote:
Quote:
I don't see that I have any responsibility for fixing the US.
well then, you have nothing to offer? The founding fathers didn't have any responsibility either. Weve fucked up much of what they had in mind and guys like you want guys like me to cover your useless ass?
 

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