19
   

Scaring the crap out of a bunch of kids for no reason.

 
 
Reply Tue 20 Aug, 2013 04:20 pm
This is the dumbest thing ever. A man gets onto a school bus with a shotgun and starts tying up kids. A swat team then uses a flash-bang grenade and storms the bus. All the time the poor kids have no idea what the hell is happening.

It turns out that this was all a drill. These kids had to live through this traumatic experience for no apparent reason.

I am getting really annoyed off at our society that scares the crap out of people for things that are incredibly unlikely to happen.



Teaching kids how to put on condoms is useful. Teaching them not to drive drunk is reasonable. After all, hundreds of thousands of kids face pregnancy, STDs and car accidents each year.

But this ridiculous (and traumatic) exercise relates to something that causes fewer deaths than champagne corks (yes champagne corks kill 22 people each years and school violence kills about 17).

 
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Tue 20 Aug, 2013 04:25 pm
@maxdancona,
The most idiotic quote from this video

Quote:
Every driver, administrator will take something away from this saying; that 'wow this could actually happen on my bus'.


Except it hasn't happened since 1976 (if you don't count idiotic police drills).
roger
 
  2  
Reply Tue 20 Aug, 2013 05:35 pm
@maxdancona,
Inexcusable.
boomerang
 
  2  
Reply Tue 20 Aug, 2013 06:15 pm
@maxdancona,
That is one of the weirdest things I've heard of a school coming up with.

What were they thinking!?
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Aug, 2013 06:15 pm
@roger,
roger wrote:

Inexcusable.

Ya see? We can agree lots of times, I am guessing.
0 Replies
 
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Aug, 2013 06:30 pm
@maxdancona,
this may actually be the stupidest thing I've ever seen.

and I've seen a lotta stupid...

inflicting terror on those kids has no bearing it seems.

I agree, everyone will take something away from there.

probably some serious nightmares for some of those kids...
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Aug, 2013 06:58 pm
Where did this occur?
mysteryman
 
  4  
Reply Tue 20 Aug, 2013 07:11 pm
They planned for every detail...except telling the parents I bet.
I understand the cops need to train in as realistic a manner as possible, but if my kid was on that bus and they didn't tell me they were gonna do this, I would want somebodies ass.

And what if a student or the bus driver had panicked?

This has to be the worst thought out training activity I have ever seen.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Aug, 2013 07:28 pm
@Foofie,
The Youtube introduction says Rossford OH.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Aug, 2013 09:15 pm
@boomerang,
boomerang wrote:
That is one of the weirdest things I've heard of a school coming up with.
What were they thinking!?

I can see having drills, but they probably don't need to have a guy with an actual shotgun, or police participation. And they should let the poor kids know that it is actually a drill.

When they hold fire drills, they don't actually set the school on fire during the drill and then have the fire department come and put it out (or at least they didn't when I was in school).
roger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Aug, 2013 09:22 pm
@oralloy,
Yeah, who knows what the heck they do now-a-days.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  2  
Reply Tue 20 Aug, 2013 11:27 pm
@maxdancona,
Any lawsuits yet?
If I was a lawyer, I'd be salivating
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Aug, 2013 11:43 pm
@maxdancona,
I am having second thoughts about the veracity of this story (and perhaps feeling bad for posting it).

Maybe these kids were actually told before hand. I listened to the video, it seems like the reporter is hyping it up. The kids don't actually look that traumatized to me.

I wonder if this was set up. A drill where the kids were told that they would be "hijacked" and the reporter misreported it by leaving out this very important detail. In this case, it would be very bad journalism (rather than behavior of the school administrators).

It is still dumb.... but it wouldn't be tragically dumb. And if this is the case I feel a little dumb for biting.
roger
 
  2  
Reply Wed 21 Aug, 2013 12:00 am
@maxdancona,
Maybe. Maybe not. Still, I have serious reservations about the whole thing, and especially regarding that flash - bang granade. Those things are very loud. In fact, they are designed to be very loud. Possible damage to hearing may be a fair trade off in some situations. This is not one of them. Also, they also represent a significant fire hazard. There really isn't justification for any part of the operation.

Now, I did not watch the video, so maybe I'm setting my heinie up for a good biting. Just going by the op.
0 Replies
 
trying2learn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Aug, 2013 12:53 pm
@maxdancona,
I wouldn't feel bad for posting what the media reports. They should get their facts straight though.

Here is what the Chief of Police wrote:

"A MESSAGE FROM GLENN GOSS, CHIEF OF POLICE, ROSSFORD, OHIO REGARDING YOUR POST (BELOW) OF CHILDREN ON A BUS…

Thank you for your concern for the students and children within our school district and community. I too would be concerned for any child who unwittingly was held hostage, tied up and threatened at gunpoint. The problem is: none of this happened.

This was a well planned training exercise in which all participants (children and bus driver included) knew well in advance that they were participating in a training exercise to prepare for such an event to take place – which is very possible in our world today.

Each student and participant signed waivers that acknowledged their participation in this training. Unfortunately, some of the information released to the media portrayed this as an event in which police and school officials took advantage of innocent children who had no idea that this was a mock incident. This is not true. As stated previously, EVERYONE was well aware that this was a training exercise for school personnel, students, law enforcement and the public.

The Rossford Police Department is very proud to be part of a community that prepares for such incidents, even though we hope we never encounter them. Our proactive approach to counter-terrorism, active killers and other such incidents hopefully will save lives in the future…especially the lives of our children.

Please feel free to forward this message along to all of those who have found it necessary to chastise this training exercise without first asking questions and gathering facts – as your information is wrong. You may also want to note that today (August 19th) was the first day of school and the day of the training exercise was last Wednesday (August 14th) so we would have no children riding buses other than for this training exercise in which they voluntarily participated in.

I would also like to share with you that the youth pictured on the website is the son of a Sheriff’s Dispatcher who, again, was well aware of the training."

I highly doubt the police used any flash bang grenades inside that bus. I know that when these type of training exercises are held where I live, every public person who volunteers to be involved sign consent forms. If children are involved, then the parents sign consent forms also.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Aug, 2013 03:33 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
I am getting really annoyed off at our society that scares the crap out of people for things that are incredibly unlikely to happen...

I'm no longer sure what things "are incredibly unlikely to happen" or what we have to realistically prepare schoolchildren to deal with. I think what scares the crap out of people is knowing what can happen...

Some drills are necessary to prepare children and school personnel for the possibility of an attack, or emergency, of any kind, and even knowing that these are simulations, they may still arouse some level of anxiety. But I don't see that as, "Scaring the crap out of a bunch of kids for no reason." I think there is good reason for such preparedness.

Just listening to the news can "scare the crap out of a bunch of kids" and parents.

Consider just this week...
Quote:
Michael Brandon Hill packing nearly 500 rounds at Georgia elementary school

LITHONIA, Ga. The suspect in Tuesday's Atlanta-area school shooting took a photo of himself with an AK 47-style rifle and packed up nearly 500 rounds of ammunition — enough to shoot more than half the school's students — the police said Wednesday.

Police said Michael Brandon Hill got the gun from an acquaintance, but it's not clear if he stole it or had permission to take it.

No one was injured Tuesday, but the suspect exchanged gunfire with police who surrounded Ronald E. McNair Discovery Learning Academy in Decatur. The school's 870 students in pre-kindergarten through fifth grade were evacuated...

Investigators said Hill may not have gone into the school with the idea of killing students, CBS News correspondent Mark Strassmann reports from Decatur, Ga. They said that Hill had another motive, but what that was, police won't say.

Also Wednesday, CBS News obtained a police report showing Hill was arrested earlier this year for allegedly threatening on Facebook to shoot his older brother in the head "and not think twice about it."

The Henry County police report shows that Hill's older brother, Timothy Hill, told police last New Year's Eve that threats Michael made a day earlier made Timothy "fear for his life."

"Mr. Hill advised his brother stated on Facebook that he would shoot him in the head and not think twice about it," a police officer wrote in the report.

Timothy Hill told police that he knew his younger brother had "mental issues" and was under a doctor's care but that he didn't know where Michael was living at the time.

More than two months later, in March, Michael Hill turned himself in on the outstanding warrant for making "terroristic threats."

Hill's brother told CBS News the suspect is bipolar and schizophrenic and has tried to kill himself several times, Strassmann reports. In June 2009, he admitted to setting his parents' house on fire...

Hill held two staff members in the front office captive for a time, the police chief said, making one of them call a local TV station. At some point, he fired into the floor of the school office. As officers swarmed the campus outside, he shot at them at least a half a dozen times with an assault rifle from inside the school and they returned fire, police said. Police came into the school office, and Hill surrendered....

The ordeal terrified parents.

Rufus Morrow was at work when he got a phone call with news that shots had been fired at the school his daughter attends.

He drove "about 90 mph" to the school. The police chief says Hill, armed with an assault rifle and other weapons, was able to slip into the school where visitors must be buzzed in by staff.

Morrow said he almost cried as he told his supervisor why he needed to leave.

"Just the mere thought of what happened at that other elementary school happening here, it was just devastating to my soul," he said, referring to the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre in Connecticut in December that left 26 people dead, 20 of them children.

Dramatic television footage showed lines of young students racing out of the building with police and teachers escorting them to safety. They sat outside in a field for a time until school buses came to take them to their waiting parents and other relatives at a nearby Wal-Mart.

Morrow was one of those parents and held his 10-year-old daughter close to him during an interview after the two were reunited.

"My stomach was in my throat for the whole time until I saw her face on the bus," he said.

His daughter, a fifth-grader named Dyamond, told The Associated Press that a voice came over the intercom saying school was under lockdown and instructed students to get under tables. She said her teacher told the class to sing and pray.

"There were a lot of girls crying, I was feeling scared but I didn't cry. I was just nervous," she said...

Students at the school arrived Wednesday morning at nearby McNair High School, where they would attend classes for the time being. The high school's marquee said "Welcome McNair Elementary School Our Prayers Are With You."...
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57599610/michael-brandon-hill-packing-nearly-500-rounds-at-georgia-elementary-school/

That sort of incident affects not only the children in that school, but all other schoolchildren who hear about it through the media as well. And it certainly resonates with all parents who hear about it. Unfortunately, school shootings, by outsiders as well as by other students, seem to be too within the realm of possibility, and I think there's a thin line between having children appropriately prepared for an incident and scaring them unnecessarily, and sometimes it may be difficult to know just where that line is.

It's off topic, but the bookkeeper in that Georgia school who talked the gunman into surrendering behaved truly heroically. I don't think too much praise can be heaped on this woman.

The way Antoinette Tuff intuitively related to the gunman was remarkable. Who knows how many lives this woman may have saved. If you haven't heard it, listen to the 911 call...


We need more school personnel as well prepared to handle a crisis situation as Antoinette Tuff did.








firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Aug, 2013 03:57 pm
@firefly,
And today, a 5 year old kindergarten student brought a loaded gun to school in his backpack and it accidently discharged. Fortunately, no one was injured.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/08/22/20138428-no-injuries-after-memphis-5-year-old-fires-gun-in-school?lite

Should that sort of incident not scare the other children?
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Thu 22 Aug, 2013 04:44 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
I'm no longer sure what things "are incredibly unlikely to happen" or what we have to realistically prepare schoolchildren to deal with. I think what scares the crap out of people is knowing what can happen...

Some drills are necessary to prepare children and school personnel for the possibility of an attack, or emergency, of any kind, and even knowing that these are simulations, they may still arouse some level of anxiety. But I don't see that as, "Scaring the crap out of a bunch of kids for no reason." I think there is good reason for such preparedness.


There is no good reason for such preparedness. This attitude is not rational.

The number of kids who died from school shootings last year is 42 out of a school aged population of 73 million. Last year was the highest number (by far) in recent history because of one event. There are zero kids who died during a school bus hijacking in the US at any time since 1976.

This is compared to about 4,000 school children who die each year in car crashes.

This is a waste of time and money for something that is so unlikely to happen.

In our media-obsessed society of 380 billion people, you will find stories about any particular hazard you might choose to be afraid of. A couple dozen people die of champagne cork accidents any year... but I don't see any champagne cork drills being done. But children hijacked on a bus makes a great media narrative, so we will do these silly drills (even though the real risk is statistically insignificant).

firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Aug, 2013 05:19 pm
@maxdancona,
You can't just go by statistical probability. How many children died in school fires last year? Should they stop having fire drills?

When I went to school we had duck and cover drills. No one thought these were a joke or unnecessary, even though we hadn't had a nuclear attack. And the whole idea of such an attack was anxiety-provoking for the children, but we had to have those drills anyway, just in case.

Actually, a school bus hijacking isn't that difficult to pull off.
Quote:
There is no good reason for such preparedness. This attitude is not rational.

I think we just disagree on that. I'd rather see schools over-prepared, and well organized, than caught off guard and chaotic in a crisis situation. So far, I don't see evidence of an irrational attitude regarding this issue. I personally find the idea of arming teachers considerably more irrational than conducting an occasional drill or simulated situation.






oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Aug, 2013 05:30 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
There is no good reason for such preparedness. This attitude is not rational.

The reason for all the hysteria over school shootings is because Obama decided to try to use the issue as a tool for attacking America's freedom.

However, I disagree that there isn't a good reason for such drills. Being prepared saves lives.
 

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