Scaring the crap out of a bunch of kids for no reason.

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Quote:
Every driver, administrator will take something away from this saying; that 'wow this could actually happen on my bus'.

They could have taken that knowledge away even if the kids had all known about the drill in advance. And by telling the kids about the drill in advance, they could have avoided traumatizing them.

If you want to prepare them for extremely unlikely events that's one thing. Waste your damn money, folks, if you think this is so damn important. But there's no evidence that making them think it's all real will better prepare them for anything.

1 Reply

@Kolyo,

Quote:

They could have taken that knowledge away even if the kids had all known about the drill in advance.

What makes you think the kids didn't know about the simulation in advance, and had agreed to take part in it? It may have been realistically done, so some kids might have experienced some anxiety, one said, "It felt like the real thing," but who says anyone was traumatized by it or that anyone on that bus thought it was an actual hijacking? They all knew it wasn't the real thing.

Quote:

Now, the kids who participated were informed that something out of the ordinary would be happening during this bus trip to a parking lot according to Chief of Police Glenn Goss:

Thank you for your concern for the students and children within our school district and community. I too would be concerned for any child who unwittingly was held hostage, tied up and threatened at gunpoint. The problem is: none of this happened.

This was a well planned training exercise in which all participants (children and bus driver included) knew well in advance that they were participating in a training exercise to prepare for such an event to take place – which is very possible in our world today.

Each student and participant signed waivers that acknowledged their participation in this training.

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130821/11181024272/signs-times-ohio-school-hosts-counter-terrorism-bus-hijacking-drill.shtml

These weren't young children, they were high school students, and they can separate reality from fantasy. Teens that age also love slasher movies, do we worry about them being traumatized by those things?

It wasn't "a drill"--it was a simulation, done as in-service training for school personnel. The students were just relatively passive participants, and they had all agreed to participate in what they knew was only a demonstration. It was like taking part in a play. And that's all it was.

The title of this thread is very misleading--that simulation really didn't "scare the crap out of a bunch of kids." They knew it wasn't for real.

Other school districts may use a DVD of a simulated hijacking, along with other training materials, provided to them free of charge, for the same purpose.

Quote:

The School Transportation Security Awareness, or STSA, program was developed by us in conjunction with the National Association of State Directors of Pupil Transportation Services, the National Association of Pupil Transportation and the National School Transportation Association to provide much needed security awareness information and training to the school transportation industry. STSA focuses on terrorist and criminal threats to school buses, bus passengers and destination facilities. It is designed to provide school bus drivers, administrators, and staff members with information that will enable them to effectively identify and report perceived security threats, as well as the skills to appropriately react and respond to a security incident should it occur.
http://www.tsa.gov/stakeholders/school-transportation-security-awareness

The worst you can probably say about all this is that it's likely a waste of time.

Then again, an armed gunman did actually board a school bus in January of this year, and he killed the driver and abducted a child. So these things do happen.

1 Reply

@firefly,

firefly wrote:

What makes you think the kids didn't know about the simulation in advance, and had agreed to take part in it? ... who says .... anyone on that bus thought it was an actual hijacking? They all knew it wasn't the real thing.

Oh...

Well, I guess it would do me some good to actually read these threads instead skimming them. Carry on...

1 Reply

@Kolyo,

Quote:

Well, I guess it would do me some good to actually read these threads instead skimming them.

It would also do you some good to get up to speed on how English works before you go and spread your ignorance all over the pages of A2K, Kolyo.

That also applies to how the US has brutalized the innocents of the planet in order to steal their wealth.

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@maxdancona,

You realize don't you Max that you are skewering a favorite liberal argument for increased gun control? Firefly certainly does.

2 Replies

@Finn dAbuzz,

Quote:

You realize don't you Max that you are skewering a favorite liberal argument for increased gun control? Firefly certainly does.

I do?

Well, not that I'm aware of.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

First of all, the point I am making is that a 1:73,000,000 chance of something happening is insignificant as far as planning or policy (not to say that an unlikely death is any less tragic than any other type of death). I don't see how this relates to gun control. There are many orders of magnitude more deaths from guns then from bus hijackings).

Second of all, I don't care about liberal arguments. I have my own opinions and there are several cases where I disagree with liberals. I assume that you have your own opinions too.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

There is no good reason for such preparedness. This attitude is not rational.This is a waste of time and money for something that is so unlikely to happen.

So what do you suggest? How should they train? You want them to be reactive and or pro-active?

0 Replies

@maxdancona,

I agree with your point and think it applies as well to the argument that the tragic but extremely rare occurence of children being gunned down by a gun toting maniac calls for an increase gun control.

I could have sworn that you declared once that your were a proud liberal. Perhaps my recollection is defficient.

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@maxdancona,

You didn't answer my question on how they should train. Maybe you don't understand the multi-agencies involved that have to coordinate. Yes, the bus with the volunteers was a training exercise. They have to train to save lives.

http://westseattleblog.com/2013/09/162830
"This was an Organized Crime and Drug Enforcement Task Force (OCDETF) investigation, providing supplemental federal funding to the federal and state agencies involved. The investigation was led by the FBI’s Safe Streets Task Force including officers and agents from the Seattle Police Department and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms & Explosives (ATF) and the U.S. Postal Inspection Service (USPIS). Today’s arrests and search warrants involved a number of law enforcement agencies: the King County Sheriff’s Office, Pierce County Sheriff’s Office, Tacoma Police Department and the Valley SWAT Team (Renton, Kent, Tukwila and Auburn Police Departments)."

1 Reply

@trying2learn,

Except that the incident referred to in the opening video took place near Toledo, Ohio. But don't let a few thousand miles and your incomprehension deter you.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

What? They train to save lives. It happens where I live and other surrounding areas. Do you actually think that most police officers have no heart?

1 Reply

@trying2learn,

I'm not concerned by any putative anatomical anomalies in police officers.

First, they don't need live subjects on the bus in order to train. Police routinely train at shooting ranges with pop-up targets, some made to look like bad guys and some made to look like a woman with a bag of groceries.

Second, even if they decide they want to train with live subjects, they don't need to be students.

Third, even if they decide to train with students as the live subjects, they don't need to keep them in the dark and scare the crap out of them. Which is, of course, the point of Max's thread.

3 Replies

@Setanta,

The training at this school was done for the benefit of the school personnel, not the police.

Quote:

Third, even if they decide to train with students as the live subjects, they don't need to keep them in the dark and scare the crap out of them.

They didn't keep the students in the dark, nor did they scare the crap out of them. They knew it was a training exercise and a simulation. You would have known that too if you bothered to follow this thread.

Quote:

This was a well planned training exercise in which all participants (children and bus driver included) knew well in advance that they were participating in a training exercise to prepare for such an event to take place – which is very possible in our world today.

Each student and participant signed waivers that acknowledged their participation in this training.

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130821/11181024272/signs-times-ohio-school-hosts-counter-terrorism-bus-hijacking-drill.shtml

1 Reply

@firefly,

Miss F*cking Know It All . . . watch the video in the OP again, those students didn't know it was a drill. Once again, they didn't need students for this training drill, no matter whom one alleges was being trained.

2 Replies

"I didn't know what was going on, 'cause, like at the start, he was just like a normal person, and then he pulled out a gun and a mask, and puts it on and starts tying everybody down, and it was just like really scary."

-- Justin Klocko, one of the students.

"When a bad person boards the bus, the driver wouldn't know that he or she would be on the bus. We want to make this as realistic as possible."

-- Jeff Culler, Rossford Schools Transportation Director

0 Replies

@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

Police routinely train at shooting ranges with pop-up targets, some made to look like bad guys and some made to look like a woman with a bag of groceries.

Something like this.

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@Setanta,

Quote:

Miss F*cking Know It All . . . watch the video in the OP again, those students didn't know it was a drill.

So, Mr. F*cking Know It All, now you're claiming the Chief of Police, Glenn Goss, was lying when he said...

Quote:

Thank you for your concern for the students and children within our school district and community. I too would be concerned for any child who unwittingly was held hostage, tied up and threatened at gunpoint. The problem is: none of this happened.

This was a well planned training exercise in which all participants (children and bus driver included) knew well in advance that they were participating in a training exercise to prepare for such an event to take place – which is very possible in our world today.

Each student and participant signed waivers that acknowledged their participation in this training.
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130821/11181024272/signs-times-ohio-school-hosts-counter-terrorism-bus-hijacking-drill.shtml

The above link was previously posted. You just don't bother reading before you post..

The video in the OP, and the title of this thread, are both misleading because they do not make it clear that the students were knowingly participating in a simulation, and had agreed to do so. The video, an alleged news report, was particularly misleading regarding what took place.

The students may have "felt like it was real" but they all knew it wasn't. They knew they were participating in a dramatization.

1 Reply

@firefly,

I read your link, and the statement of the Police Chief is contradicted both by the students interviewed and by the Rossford Schools Transportation Director. Sure the Police Chief is going to say that. So you explain the statements of the kids and the transportation director. Miss F*cking Know It All.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

Quote:

I read your link, and the statement of the Police Chief is contradicted both by the students interviewed and by the Rossford Schools Transportation Director. Sure the Police Chief is going to say that. So you explain the statements of the kids and the transportation director. Miss F*cking Know It All.

There's no contradiction.

The "hijacker" boarded the bus looking like a "normal person", then he put on a mask and took out a gun.

That's what allowed for the element of surprise, in the simulation, for the bus driver.

And that's all the Director of Transportation was saying.

Sure it "feels real" if someone with a mask ties you up while holding a gun--even if you know it's a dramatization--they did try to make it seem realistic, and the students might not have been given every detail in advance, so it would be more spontaneous. But the students knew they weren't going to be hurt, they knew it wasn't real.

Mr. F*cking Know It All, either you think the Chief of Police is a liar, or you believe him that these students knew in advance they were going to participate in a training exercise of this nature, they had agreed to it, and they had signed waivers.

Has anyone come forward, Mr. F*cking Know It All, to contradict the Chief of Police's statement?

0 Replies

Scaring the crap out of a bunch of kids for no reason.

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