19
   

Scaring the crap out of a bunch of kids for no reason.

 
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Aug, 2013 11:20 am
@maxdancona,
wow, if this is all true, there will probably be a whole bunch of kids that will spend hours and hours in analyses during their young lives.

Im talking class action suit here. These locals have to be taught some manners.
We have a twp supervisor who shows up at the public meetings armed. As a result, the twp has asked police to attend meetings since this guy has a "right to be armed"
As one of the uprevisors said to the armed one
"You may have the right, but is it right?"
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Aug, 2013 11:20 am
@maxdancona,
It had nothing to do with McCarthy--we were involved in the Korean War, which was the reason for the heightened state of alert where I lived. That's why the sirens were reserved for possible air raids.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Fri 23 Aug, 2013 11:37 am
@firefly,
Quote:
That's why the sirens were reserved for possible air raids.


That's bull. There was zero risk of air raids in the US during the Korean war.

The purpose of the sirens, and the heightened state of alert where you lived, was to make sure that the American people supported the war effort. As long as people lived in fear the communists, they would support the government without question.

There were no air raids and there never was even the possibility of air raids.


firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Aug, 2013 12:00 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
The purpose of the sirens, and the heightened state of alert where you lived, was to make sure that the American people supported the war effort.

It was more a response to what the Soviets were saying at the time.
Quote:
"We will bury you!" (Russian: "Мы вас похороним!", transliterated as My vas pokhoronim!) was a phrase famously used by Soviet premier Nikita Khrushchev while addressing Western ambassadors at a reception at the Polish embassy in Moscow on November 18, 1956... Khrushchev repeated this Marxist thesis at a meeting with journalists in the U.S. in September 1959. However, many Americans interpreted the quote as a nuclear threat.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_will_bury_you
roger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Aug, 2013 12:02 pm
I think the duck and cover routine, and the blackout curtains that I remember in every classroom, were intended to protect from flying glass, and had nothing to do with primary blast damage. I wasn't impressed then, and in hindsight, I am even less impressed.

I did notice in a video of the kids leaving the bus, a couple did seem to think they were part of some new game.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Fri 23 Aug, 2013 12:07 pm
@firefly,
Did you read the link you just posted. It contradicts the very point you are trying to make.

Quote:
The actual verbal context was: "Whether you like it or not, history is on our side. We will dig you in" ("Нравится вам или нет, но история на нашей стороне. Мы вас закопаем"). In his subsequent public speech Khrushchev declared: "[...] We must take a shovel and dig a deep grave, and bury colonialism as deep as we can".[4] Later, on August 24, 1963, Khrushchev remarked in his speech in Yugoslavia, "I once said, 'We will bury you,' and I got into trouble with it. Of course we will not bury you with a shovel. Your own working class will bury you,"[5]



firefly
 
  0  
Reply Fri 23 Aug, 2013 12:27 pm
@maxdancona,
Right, but that's not how many people interpreted Khrushchev's remarks at the time--and the link points that out. They did take it as a nuclear threat.

Look, you started this thread because you felt school bus hijackings just don't happen, so why prepare for them, or train school bus drivers, or school transportation coordinators, and school administrators, how to handle them.

And you were wrong about that--the most recent school bus hijacking occurred earlier this year and the bus driver was killed.

You really have no justification for claiming there is no need to do training to help school administrators prepare to deal with any sort of emergency or crisis on a school bus. These things do happen.

And that simulation in your OP post was done as in-service training for the school personnel, it really was not aimed at students, nor did it traumatize any of the students who participated in what was, in effect, a dramatic presentation/creation, of a possible scenario.

I have no problems with schools properly training personnel to deal with possible emergencies either within a school or on school transportation.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Fri 23 Aug, 2013 12:57 pm
@firefly,
Come on Firefly

You pointed out 1 death (of a bus driver) the the past 27 years out of a population of 78 million school aged kids and tens of millions of school bus trips. You have hardly proved anything.

The death of one person out of a population of 380 million does not constitute a significant risk.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Aug, 2013 01:26 pm
@maxdancona,
You're the one who is denying the reality that incidents have occurred on school buses--and beside the ones involving adult outsiders or strangers, there have been incidents with students having weapons on school buses. That's reality, and the person driving the bus has to be prepared to deal with whatever might happen when children are on the bus.

I'm not interested in statistical probabilities when it comes to such random and unpredictable events. It's better to be prepared and to have school personnel trained before the emergency actually occurs.

You're making a ridiculously big deal over a single in-service training demonstration in one particular school district.

parados
 
  3  
Reply Fri 23 Aug, 2013 01:43 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

The most idiotic quote from this video

Quote:
Every driver, administrator will take something away from this saying; that 'wow this could actually happen on my bus'.


Except it hasn't happened since 1976 (if you don't count idiotic police drills).


What they should be saying is "This could actually happen on my bus if I plan it and authorize the drill."
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Reply Fri 23 Aug, 2013 01:45 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

maxdancona wrote:
There is no good reason for such preparedness. This attitude is not rational.

The reason for all the hysteria over school shootings is because Obama decided to try to use the issue as a tool for attacking America's freedom.

However, I disagree that there isn't a good reason for such drills. Being prepared saves lives.


Don't worry folks, oralloy has just informed us Newtown never happened. It was all Obama hysteria.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Aug, 2013 02:26 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
I'm not interested in statistical probabilities when it comes to such random and unpredictable events. It's better to be prepared and to have school personnel trained before the emergency actually occurs.


This is the crux of our disagreement. If I am going to spend time and money preparing for an emergency, it should be an emergency that is statistically likely to happen. Preparing for something that has a 1:73,000,000 chance of happening is a waste of time.

A quick google search finds all kinds of freak bus hazards from garbage truck failures to alligators brought on board by students. These all statistically insignificant things that happen because with a 380 million Americans, things with a statistically insignificant probability of happening will happen on occasion. It doesn't mean we have to take meaningless steps to "prepare".

Terrorist attacks are sexy. That is the only reason that we prepare for them out of all of the other statistically unlikely things we could be preparing for.


0 Replies
 
Kolyo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Aug, 2013 02:42 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

This is a waste of time and money for something that is so unlikely to happen.


Not mention all the money society is going to have to spend treating these kids for PTSD.

What does not kill you does not necessarily make you stronger.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Aug, 2013 03:07 pm
So, it wasn't true after all?
roger
 
  2  
Reply Fri 23 Aug, 2013 03:44 pm
@farmerman,
Hurting someone without killing them could be a very serious blunder.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  2  
Reply Fri 23 Aug, 2013 04:56 pm
@maxdancona,
Its significant to that one persons family.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Fri 23 Aug, 2013 10:00 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Right, but that's not how many people interpreted Khrushchev's remarks at the time--and the link points that out. They did take it as a nuclear threat.


That's because you are so god damned gullible and so god damn gullible.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  2  
Reply Fri 23 Aug, 2013 10:16 pm
@mysteryman,
Which would have been prevented by. . . ?
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 24 Aug, 2013 08:10 am
@roger,
roger wrote:
I think the duck and cover routine, and the blackout curtains that I remember in every classroom, were intended to protect from flying glass, and had nothing to do with primary blast damage. I wasn't impressed then, and in hindsight, I am even less impressed.

Protection from flying glass is important. Especially considering that many medical facilities would be out of commission, and whatever remained would be overwhelmed with more people than they could possibly treat. Not a good time to find yourself with deep lacerations all over your body.

Also, don't forget that a blast can pick people up and throw them through the air hard enough to snap their neck when they land (or even break bones and cause internal injuries if they are lucky enough to escape a broken neck). Lying flat on the ground protects against that as well as flying glass.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Aug, 2013 08:51 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
Except it hasn't happened since 1976 (if you don't count idiotic police drills).

It happened a few months ago, in January of this year...
Quote:
Bus driver slaying

Just after 3:30 p.m., Dykes boarded a Dale County school bus that was stopped in Midland City and told the driver that he wanted to take two children, six and eight years old, both boys, from the bus. The school bus driver, 66-year-old Charles Albert Poland, Jr., refused to let him take the children and challenged Dykes to shoot him. He blocked access to the aisle of the bus while twenty-one children escaped through the emergency exit located at the back of the bus. Dykes fired five shots, killing Poland, and left the bus taking Ethan, a five-year-old student from Midland City Elementary School, with him. Authorities indicated that there was no pre-existing relationship between Ethan and Dykes. 15-year-old Tre' Watts, who was present on the bus, was the first person to call 911; he began the call when Dykes boarded the bus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Alabama_bunker_hostage_crisis

This is the full news account.
Quote:
Alabama school bus driver died protecting kids from wacko gunman
By Associated Press
06/01/2013

MIDLAND CITY, Ala. (AP) — A six-day bunker hostage standoff in Alabama began with a school bus driver stubbornly refusing to hand over children as hostages despite threats from the gunman who killed him moments later, according to newly released recordings.

“It’s my responsibility to keep these kids on the bus. I can’t turn them over to somebody else,” bus driver Charles Poland said in a recording aired Friday by ABC News.

Days of tense talks between federal authorities and Jimmy Lee Dykes included the 65-year-old suspect cursing negotiators and ranting that his stand with his 5-year-old hostage would cause “chaos” in society and lead to riots, the recordings reveal.

“People are going be standing up to this (expletive) dictatorial, incompetent, self-righteous, bunch of sorry bastards in government,” Dykes said in recordings obtained by ABC News.

Members of an FBI hostage rescue team stormed Dykes’ underground bunker near Midland City in early February, killing the man before he harmed Ethan Gilman or detonated an improvised explosive that authorities said was in the 6-foot by 8-foot shelter.

The FBI confirmed the existence of the recordings but declined to immediately release the material to The Associated Press.

In interviews with ABC, FBI agents said they decided to raid the bunker after it became apparent that Dykes was handling weapons and an improvised explosive device inside the shelter more often than he had been at the beginning of the standoff.

Dykes apparently planned to have the child detonate the bomb if he was killed, said FBI Special Agent Steve Richardson.

“Jim Dykes relayed to the negotiators, ‘If anything happens to me, I have told Ethan to pull the trigger,’” Richardson said. “That meant he had told Ethan to detonate the IED, the second IED that was inside the bunker.”

Dykes snatched Ethan off a school bus driven by Charles Poland, 66, in late January, dragging the child into the bunker after fatally shooting Poland aboard the bus loaded with children.

The audio recording, taken from a bus surveillance tape, indicated Dykes boarded and immediately demanded children.

“I need two boys 6 to 8 years old,” Dykes, armed with a handgun, is heard saying angrily in the recording. “Six to 8 years old. I mean it. Right now! Right now!”

Poland refused. “I can’t do it,” he responded. Seconds later, Poland said, “Sorry, you’re going to have to shoot me.”

“How about I shoot a kid then,” Dykes replied.

Poland refused again, saying it was his “responsibility to keep these kids on the bus.”

Dykes shot Poland dead moments later, and a student on the bus called 911 to alert authorities. Poland has since been widely hailed as a hero for protecting nearly two dozen students who were on board.

Once in the bunker with the child, Dykes communicated with authorities through a pipe and by phone. The recordings show he was disdainful of government and taunted negotiators with obscenities.

Authorities previously have said Dykes wanted to make a public statement about his complaints against the government but never revealed specific topics. The recording indicated he believed he could spark anarchy.

“You know goddamn well what I’d say when I go public,” Dykes said. “It’s going to create chaos. It’s going to create riots. … People are going be standing up to this (expletive) dictatorial, incompetent, self-righteous, bunch of sorry bastards in government.”

Dykes’ motive is still unclear, although he was due in court the day after the school bus confrontation on a charge of firing a weapon at neighbors.

Ethan, who turned 6 shortly after his release, was freed without any physical injuries.

http://dailycaller.com/2013/06/01/audio-alabama-school-bus-driver-died-protecting-kids-from-wacko-gunman/


I suspect that this incident might have been the reason that school district cited in the OP post held that in-service training simulation of a bus hijacking.

Unfortunately, I don't think there is much a school bus driver can do when a deranged person with a gun manages to board a school bus. This driver heroically behaved in a way that allowed many children to escape through the emergency exit at the back of the bus, but he wound up being killed and a child was still abducted.

But, things like this obviously do happen, just as another gunman with an AK-47 and 500 rounds of ammo managed to get into another elementary school this week. Fortunately, these things don't happen often, but the reality of these events is a lot more frightening to children than a one time in-service training simulation to help school personnel address and talk about such issues.

We live in a society with a lot of crazy people who have access to lethal weapons...
0 Replies
 
 

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