Indians (Native Americans)

great list edgar

The list is actually links on the website.

A question Ive never had answered to my satisfaction is one like"how do they make shredded wheat"

Except in this case.
We know that Amerinds had used the atlatl as their chief weapon.This they brought with them in their crossing to the continent(no matter what route)
This went on till about 1000-2000BCE. Then, all of a sudden badabing, they have the bow. Ive heard all kinds of stories that the bow was
1 brought from the South or North (Innuits)
2 It was a special population influx
3 developed here in a separate burst of insite

Ive never had a really good answer from the pros. It seems that there are as many theories as anthropologists.

Doesnt it appear strange that this is a fortuitous good luck event? or is everyb ody pretty much satisfied about the origin of this tool except me?

I hadn't the education to ponder the question. Now that you mention it.....

That is a good one, FM. Follow along with me on this one, and know that it is only speculation on my part. The bow has been developed in widely separate places, and in pondering it, something occured to me. Picture the method by which a fire may be started using tinder heaped on a relatively fire resistant, small board, by rapidly twirling a pointed stick between one's hands. This is accomplished by the "waste heat" from the friction generated. Therefore, more speed makes for more efficiency. A common tool for such a purpose is a small bow-like device, with the string looped around the verticle stick. One places one's hand (protected--leather?) on the top of the stick, and then "saws" back and forth with the bow, and the looped string (animal gut?) causes it to spin.

Humans are inventive, an obvious statement; having "captured" fire, it was natural to look for ways to produce it from materials at hand without awaiting a fortuitous event. It is also quite feasible that only a handful of people thought of the "bow" solution for a fire-starter. But cultural diffusion seems to work very rapidly (the old, slow process envisioned by 19th century historians and archaeologists now appears to be much misstated), and once the new idea of such a fire starter was implemented, it likely would have spread rapidly. It then requires only a single perceptive individual to look at the tool, ponder other uses, and make the connection with throwing a spear. Spear throwers are equally common across cultures, so the entire sequence seems plausible to me. From what you've already posted, and what i've read about the relatively small base upon which the population of the Americas grew, it does not seem to me unreasonable that it would require only one inventor of the bow type of fire starter, and one "developer" who turned that into a "spear-thrower" to account for a rapid (easily within a single generation) diffusion of the use of such a tool.

All entirely, of course, speculation.

so the fire-bow was a;ready part of their tool-kit, and then , through some blast of creativity, somebody thought. Hmm," fire bow make great weapon"
Thats one I neverthought of.
They already had the concept of an arrow , because they essentially used one in an atlatl.
One that Ive heard was that , as the Innuit moved in, much later, they had the bow and connected (in its truest social definition) so sometime, as the ice retereated and the 2 cultures contacted , they shared some cultural tricks. i never liked that on e because there doesnt appear any artifact evidence to follow the contact. maybe Ill post acquiunk .

I think that even these days, we far underrate the value of cultural diffusion--and say that acknowledging that i've no great knowledge of a contemporary view of cultural diffusion. However, someone afoot could cross the continent, reasonably slowly and barring fatal accidents, within one or two seasons. Were they to see and understand any technological innovation along the way, and could reproduce it, it might serve as a useful entré for hospitality among an otherwise suspicious and potentially hostile band. So, wherever someone developed the fire-starter bow, any "passer-through" might see and immediately comprehend it, and then the narrative goes something like this: "You're a stranger here, why should we trust you?" "Well, howzabout i show you a nifty way to start fires very quickly?" Then, as soon as anyone thinks to apply a modification of that tool as a missle launcher, although it might be for a state secret for a season, so obvious of a technological "giant step" is gonna spread pretty quickly . . . all surmised in my never humble opinion.

By the by, FM, it is your point about the "sudden appearance" of the bow which is significant to me in the discussion of cultural diffusion. Consider the man found in the Italian Alps. There is no reason to assume that such peregrinations were uncommon, and, i would think, simply judging from my experience of human nature, they would be quite common. This would account for the rise of trade, and rapid cultural diffusion. In a scenario in which a continental space is inhabited by bands of people who are still sufficiently closely-related to understand one another's speech, or elaborate signs, it would only require a season or two for a truly significant development to spread right across that continental space. In the absence of institutionalized hostility between bands, i could see any tool use dispersed in such a manner in a period of time far shorter than the finest resolution of age-estimating technologies, such as isotope degredation. If someone invented the bow, and it spread across the America in a few years (not unreasonable from the concept of cultural diffusion as i see it), our technology is not going to be able to apprehend distinctions in the appearance of its use among bands, lacking that fine a resolution.

true, the speed of diffusion is often less than a generation to cros the continent (I think Greenberg said about 7mi/day was the speed of cultural diffusion-- I have no idea how he derove that).
The actual appearance of the bow , about 6or 7 K years after humans arriving-- , is what Im marvelling at. When did it first get here? and how, thats my essential quest.

Looking in.
I'll read the rest of this interesting thread tomorrow.

Now you've thrown a factor into the mix which i hadn't previously understood, FM. When you say here that the bow appears six to seven thousand years after the arrival of homo, i see i mistook what you earlier had written. I had thought that you were saying it appeared much earlier.

No, Bow is only 1000 to 2000 BCE. (Acquiunk PMed me and said it was even later with solid evidence---arrow size is the key since points for bows are much smaller)
Acquiunk isnt sure about the atlatl because hes not sure of any major occurences of the counter weight stones which give balance to the missile and then dislodge on contact)
The early points are large since they were attached to spears or throwing sticks. The atlatl made it easier to deliver an accurate hit from greater distances. However they are fairly complex tools . they have the thrower, a detachable spear that fits via a ring weight to the point. The theory is that the atlatl allows an arms extension and when the projectile hits , the combination of weight and detachable spear, actually adds momentum to the hit . Many early points are found embedded deeply into a bone of animals like a moose or bison.

Acquiunk said that it was his understanding that the bow was a transfer of twechnology from the Innuit well after the ice had isolated the peoples. His feeling was that the bow only became important AFTER a village lifestyle was adopted because an atlatl is more robust as a big game dropper. The bow was more delicate a tool

Good point that last one. While large amounts of big game are available, and there is less competition for that game, the need for more refinement in tools and technique would be less pressing. When i cogitated into my surmises on the bow, it was in reference to other than American early tool development. There are lots of significant exceptions, as well. Neither the Kelt nor the German seem to have developed missile weapons, nor did many of the tribes of Africa.

(Edit: i should qualify that to say "dedicated missile weapons." Most cultures of which i know developed the spear, and many have thrown spears, and even developed spear throwers, but not necessarily the bow or the sling. One of the most interesting such questions to me is why the Chinese developed the crossbow nearly three thousand years ago--that is definitely a weapon as opposed to a tool--taking bows and slings as "tools" when used for hunting.)

weapons v tools, that a good distinction. The greek "belly bow" and the Chinese crossbow were definately an indication that we were not a peaceful species.

The Indian Peoples History.


When the American continent was discovered by the Whiteman, they came from the east in their strange and large wooden ships, they went to the lands of the Indians who called them "Awaunageesck" Â- strangers, but they treated these strange white people as friends and welcomed them on to their land…why should they not, they had plenty of land and good hunting to share. The Indians traded with the New World immigrants bartering skins and beads for simple metal worked pots and pans and other new simple everyday living equipment. At first the two peoples were friendly with each other but then more and more immigrants came in their wooden ships and they wanted more and more land, they became greedy. They spurned the friendship of the Native Indians and gradually and decisively they took over the land, taking what was not given freely, eventually taking over the whole of America, pushing the Indians onto small areas of land called Reservations. By 1800 the frontier had expanded rapidly, a vast process of migration occurred, it brought manifest disaster to the Indians.


The Native American Indians of the past, comprised of hundreds of nations, speaking hundreds of languages Â- each tribe had itÂ's own skills and ritual ceremonies, some were nomads, others lived out their lives on the same lands their grandfathers had hunted and lived. The Indians were skilled as hunters, farmers, gatherers, fishermen and artisans. Their skills and religions, spirituality along with their myths and legends were handed down from generation to generation in oral tradition. There were many differences between the tribes but one thing united them all, their general respect for the land, nature, their kinship, spirituality, and courage. Sadly, due to the "Conquest" and the taking of their land by the Whiteman and through illnesses brought by them, the Indian numbers rapidly dwindled. By the mid 1800Â's the Indians had already been herded into reservations. Under nourishment and diseases such as TB and chicken pox decimated the Indian tribes. In the winter of 1864 http://www.freewebs.com/reflections1/nativeamerindians.htm

THIS WEBSITE
"provides information on Native North American authors with bibliographies of their published works, biographical information, and links to online resources including interviews, online texts and tribal websites. Currently the website primarily contains information on contemporary Native American authors, although some historical authors are represented. The website will continue to expand, adding additional authors, books and web resources."

Good sites Edgar and Walter, thanks. I always bookmark that stuff .BTW we collect San Ildefonso pottery and Ive never found a decent site on Native American Arts and Crafts.

PS, I tried looking up William Least Heat Moon

it was listed , heat-Moon. William, Least. arggghhh

ArtNatAm: Native American Artist

Native Alaskan Graphic Arts: Founding Artists

Institute of American Indian Arts (IAIA)

tahtonka.com - Native American Arts, Humanities and Culture

Asco wequassunnu'mmis netop

Send this to Blechhley and decode it please.