Hypothetical question:

Forums: Philosophy, Ethics, Hypotheticals
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You’ve got a bit of work that has to be done around your house that includes lots of stuff you no longer feel comfortable doing…repairing and re-tarring a rather wide, long driveway; a fence near the back of the drive that needs some mending; and some other minor dits and dats.

Estimates are obtained from three people who were recommended…all have done satisfactory work for the people who recommended them.

The three estimates come in at $3,500; $4,200; and $5,000.

You do not know much about the guy in the middle, but do know that the low-end guy uses “laborer” types whom he supervises…and the high-end guy uses himself and his brother-in-law…both of whom have families and are otherwise out of work. All have insurance…as do you.

The materials are not a factor…they will be paid by you.

You are on fixed income (rather modest)…and although you are not below poverty level, you most assuredly are not living very high on the hog.

QUESTION: Do you have any social responsibility to consider here? Should you go with the lowest bid? Should the fact that the “laborer types” of the low bidder speak Spanish be a factor? Should the implications of the guy and his brother-in-law needing to feed a family play a part in your decision?

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Type: Question • Score: 14 • Views: 2,633 • Replies: 36

I think it's SO important to speak to former customers or see work done by each of the bidders.

Don't try to be a sociologist/psychologist right now about this - put on your homeowner-with-limited-budget hat.

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@Frank Apisa,

I doubt that they would have taken your circumstances into account when they worked out the estimates.
Therefore, why should you have to think about their situations before deciding which one to go with?
As they are all recommended by previous customers choose the one you feel most comfortable with.

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

Estimates are obtained from three people who were recommended…all have done satisfactory work for the people who recommended them.

You are on fixed income (rather modest)…and although you are not below poverty level, you most assuredly are not living very high on the hog.

QUESTION: Do you have any social responsibility to consider here? Should you go with the lowest bid? Should the fact that the “laborer types” of the low bidder speak Spanish be a factor? Should the implications of the guy and his brother-in-law needing to feed a family play a part in your decision?

You go for the lowest quote because all three were recommended and did satisfactory work for those people.

You can't know what the best course of action is, so you should go for the lowest quote as explained above.

The guy who needs to feed his family, is feeding his family by running a business... the others are also doing the same and when they spend their money they are helping others who may need the money even more... you can't know.

As you can't know what's for the best... go for the lowest quote... as you do know that it will help your family by saving money and could be the best course of action anyway.

Hypothetically speaking...

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Go for the lowest quote.

...uh...has anyone else said that yet?

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@Lustig Andrei,

I agree with Andy.

Most of our labourers speak Polish btw.

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@Frank Apisa,

How do you know that the "laborer types" don't need the work as much as the high bidder and his brother-in-law?

Sounds to me like the high bidder is trying to play off of your sympathies.

Market rate is market rate.

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Thank you everyone so far.

This particular hypothetical question…was hypothetical.

If I decide to get my driveway done, most likely I will use a guy who does lots of this kind of work for me and a couple of my friends. He is always “low bidder” and his work is always damn near perfect. I will not even bother with competitive bids. (I'm old, but I still do most of the other work that needs doing!)

The reason for my question was that I was wondering how people felt about the question of any social responsibilities when hiring comes into play.

There are people who argue that employers should take social responsibilities of this sort into account—that hiring people for the lowest possible price during times like this is a “wrong” think to do.

So far, here in A2K, the response appears to be unanimous. Hire for the lowest price possible!

This is particularly important right now because often the “lowest bid” (cheapest alternative)…is a machine…and if enough machines are hired, soon there will not be enough decent jobs for the people who need and want them.

I’ll be thinking this over a bit more and probably will have more to say.

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@Frank Apisa,

You just (almost) made me feel guilty about my response. Smile

("Almost" is a key word here, however.)

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@Frank Apisa,

Well, if you hire for a lower price you have money to spend elsewhere.

If you try to make it into a zero-sum game, then you'll be able to find a loser.

Muscle jobs have moved to China. Manufacturing is done by robots. Farmers use tractors.

The upshot is that the products become cheaper. Cheaper products means more money to spend on other stuff. That guy that used to be stamping out auto parts might be making sculptures, now, or might be a hunting/fishing guide.

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@Frank Apisa,

I would look carefully at the bids for differences in their approach to the job. Many times low bidders do just as good work as you already know, but other times, they will short change the task to be done somehow. The bids need to cover the same itemizing. Of course, with you providing the materials, that takes out one big area of possible fudging.

It can be true that you get what you pay for, in a negative sense.

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@Frank Apisa,

If you want to be socially responsible, take the low bid, and then give the people who actually do the work $1000 (make sure it goes to the workers not the management).

Then you will be rewarding hard work and giving your money to people who really need it.

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

The reason for my question was that I was wondering how people felt about the question of any social responsibilities when hiring comes into play.

Social responsibilities are for Government Departments, Business and Millionaires. With the money you save, buy a ticket to the UK and I'll get you drunk. I'll have a spare room soon, my daughter's flying out to China on Friday.

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@Frank Apisa,

I could only make a judgement based on your OP, Frank. You made the scenario clear and so I'd go with the lowest price. If there was an OP with a different scenario i.e. more variables then I might have to change my decision, having taken the extra or different variables into consideration.

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Frank, I guess I should make clear. I do understand that your question is about how much to weigh social concerns into your choice of contractor. As a retired architect, I look at selection of contractor rather keenly re their abilities to do the jobs you want well. I/we always gave clients a list of people known to have done good work repeatedly, but never actually recommended someone. That is similar to how we gave people doctors names back when I worked in the medical field.
I would never put forward a name of someone who seemed sketchy for social reasons, say, poor treatment of workers, etc. Otherwise, I'd not be looking to save the world when hiring an electrician, and so on, myself.

I'll add that a lot of folks recommend knocking out the low bidder and selecting from the rest.

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@Frank Apisa,

I would let my conscience be my guide, as Jiminy Cricket said, I believe.

I believe, diregarding actual bids, you are concerned about a) whether laborers do not speak English, and b) whether the third bid is more deserving.

The key here might be to project your thinking into the future, after the job would have been done, and feel whether you have any remorse for one hypothetical choice over another. Are you being haunted by any choices?

How will your Christmas be this December?

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I think you should take the money earmarked for your project and give it to Greenpeace, Do not further ruin our planet with your project's petrochemicals, wood products and the like.

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Jesus H. Christ...

HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION.

I am not considering contractors. It was a way to consider the question of whether or not someone about to incur an expense should consider any social implications.

That includes businesses.

I think they should not.

I think all businesses should get their labor at the cheapest possible price.

(THERE ARE IMPLICATIONS OF THAT!)

I think they should buy thier supplies from wherever they can at the cheapest possible cost...which usually means they buy them from where labor costs are cheapest.

(THERE ARE IMPLICATIONS OF THAT!)

2 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

I think all businesses should get their labor at the cheapest possible price.

You can't mean under all circumstances?

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

Do you have any social responsibility to consider here?

Yes, because your choice will have social ramifications. Whatever you chose, or whatever becomes the major trend because it is the most popular choice, is what there will be more of.
But I don't think people consider that. I think we generally go with the cheapest option that satisfies our criteria to the point that one might say that in our modern society where almost everything is a question of money, social structure has become an epiphenomenon of economics.

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