Hell-bent!

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Which makes sense and is grammatically correct? "Hell-bent on victory" or "Hell-bent for victory"

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Type: Question • Score: 6 • Views: 2,230 • Replies: 53

[+4] - Lustig Andrei - 07/06/2013Hmm. You could say, "He was hell-bent for victory", meaning he was really going all-out for it. "Hell-bent on" implies determination whereas "hell-bent for" implies...
[+4] - McTag - 07/08/2013 [quote]Why are you addressing this to me? [/quote] But I wasn't addressing it to you. I made a general comment, which I believe to be true. I made another comment later, which I was quite...
[+3] - Lustig Andrei - 07/08/2013[quote=JTT]Before that point was pried out of him, you were this dolt that didn't know your ass from your elbow. [/quote] Please kiss my elbow, JTT.
[+3] - McTag - 07/09/2013 [quote]You ignore C's and everyone else's comments because you don't have the honesty to admit you'd rather stick it to me. [/quote] And I thought we were getting on rather better this week....

On. If one is bent on something, one is determined to do that thing. Hell- is used as an intensifier - if one is helll-bent on something one is determined to do it whatever the consequences.

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@contrex,

Hmm. You could say, "He was hell-bent for victory", meaning he was really going all-out for it. "Hell-bent on" implies determination whereas "hell-bent for" implies that there's an ongoing action.

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@MarkLlam,

Hell bent on is the more common expression cf.

Why is my hell bent for, is my hell bent on the left or hell bent unto the breach?

1 Reply

@laughoutlood,

Quote:

Hell bent on is the more common expression cf.

"hell bent on"
About 49,500,000 results

"hell bent for"
About 6,690,000 results

Quote:

Hmm. You could say, "He was hell-bent for victory", meaning he was really going all-out for it.

"hell bent for leather" can't use anything but 'for'.

1 Reply

Important to distinguish between two different expressions: (failure to do so is quite a common error among learners and native speakers):

[hell-] bent (on something)

[utterly] determined that something shall happen, and

(going, riding, driving etc) hell-for-leather [for] (somewhere)

(Originally referring to horse travel) at maximum speed with little or no regard for danger cost, effort, etc.

1 Reply

@contrex,

Quote:

Important to distinguish between two different expressions: (failure to do so is quite a common error among learners and native speakers):

Does this mean that you don't put any stock in what Merry had to say, C?

Quote:

Hmm. You could say, "He was hell-bent for victory", meaning he was really going all-out for it. "Hell-bent on" implies determination whereas "hell-bent for" implies that there's an ongoing action.

1 Reply

@JTT,

JTT wrote:

Does this mean that you don't put any stock in what Merry had to say, C?

Quote:
Hmm. You could say, "He was hell-bent for victory", meaning he was really going all-out for it. "Hell-bent on" implies determination whereas "hell-bent for" implies that there's an ongoing action.

I am afraid not. One is bent ON something, whether Hell is invoked or not.

1 Reply

@contrex,

Quote:

I am afraid not. One is bent ON something, whether Hell is invoked or not.

Does this also mean that you don't put any stock in what the M-W dictionary has to say?

Quote:

bent adj

2 : strongly inclined : determined —usually used with on <was bent on going>

[underlined portion added by moi]

Does this also mean that you don't put any stock in what was the winner of the 1924 Pulitzer Prize in Drama, Hell Bent for Heaven by Hatcher Hughes?

http://www.samuelfrench.com/p/3879/hell-bent-for-heaven

Does this also mean that you can't see that there is a difference in meaning between Hell Bent for Heaven and Hell Bent on Heaven?

1 Reply

Cambridge

Quote:

be bent on sth/doing sth

Definition
› to be determined to do or have something: He was bent on getting married as soon as possible.

Merriam-Webster

Quote:

Definition of BENT
1
: changed by bending out of an originally straight or even condition <bent twigs>
2
: strongly inclined : determined —usually used with on <was bent on going>

Oxford

Quote:

Definition of bent
adjective

1sharply curved or having an angle:a piece of bent wire

2British informal dishonest; corrupt:a bent cop

3British informal, derogatory homosexual.

4 (bent on) determined to do or have:a missionary bent on saving souls a mob bent on violence

0 Replies

@JTT,

JTT wrote:

the 1924 Pulitzer Prize in Drama, Hell Bent for Heaven by Hatcher Hughes?

What is this 'Pulitzer Prize' of which you speak?

1 Reply

@contrex,

Quote:

What is this 'Pulitzer Prize' of which you speak?

Needless to say, I was being facetious there. I don't think the title of a play* that won the Pulitzer for drama** (in 1924!), and a "usually" in a Merriam-Webster definition are sufficient to shift me from the position that "bent for sth" is at least a (very) minority usage if not aberrant in BrE. I suppose it may be more acceptable in AmE than BrE.

* Titles of works often contain plays on words or wildly non-standard usages.

** The 1932 winner was " Of Thee I Sing" - does that mean we can all talk like Amish without getting odd looks in supermarket checkout lines? - the 1934 novel winner was "Lamb in His Bosom"; does that mean I can go about with a sheep in my shirt?

The list of Pulitzer winners reminds me irresistibly of the crazy lists in "Mulligan Stew" by Gilbert Sorrentino - one of the funniest books I have ever read.

I maintain the above notwithstanding "Hell-Bent For Election" (a 1944 film) and "Hell-Bent For Leather" (The 5th album by Judas Priest) and even " Hell Bent For Leather" (2007 British film set in the glam-rock era).

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@contrex,

Quote:

I don't think the title of a play* that won the Pulitzer for drama** (in 1924!),

You think that something this famous wouldn't have become a prescriptive cause celebre if it was an error.

Quote:

and a "usually" in a Merriam-Webster definition are sufficient to shift me from the position that "bent for sth" is at least a (very) minority usage if not aberrant in BrE.

Neither of those things above, [not to mention Merry and LOL] which point clearly to the possibility that "it may be more acceptable in AmE than BrE caused to consider that "it may be more acceptable in AmE than BrE".

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@contrex,

contrex wrote:

I suppose it may be more acceptable in AmE than BrE.

I suspect you may have a point there. Inasmuch as I live in the USA, the expression "hell-bent for -- " seems in no way aberrant to me. But I stand by what I said in my original post that there is a subtle difference of meaning between the two expressions "hell-bent on --" and hell-bent for--".

1 Reply

@Lustig Andrei,

Quote:

I suspect you may have a point there.

Really, Merry. You think Contrex has a point, do you?

Before that point was pried out of him, you were this dolt that didn't know your ass from your elbow.

As always, you show that you have a keen interest in the truth.

But anyway, you're welcome.

2 Replies

@JTT,

I have wiped the hellishly risible incarnate thought of inadvertently eschewing one's elbow with the comfort of knowing it's fer for fer in the unforgettable dramaturgid prose that was Hell Bent Fer Heaven.

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@JTT,

JTT wrote:

Before that point was pried out of him, you were this dolt that didn't know your ass from your elbow.

Please kiss my elbow, JTT.

1 Reply

@JTT,

Quote:

"hell bent for leather" can't use anything but 'for'.

Not something you hear every day. I think I've only heard it in the lyric of a Frankie Laine song.

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@McTag,

Quote:

"hell bent for leather" can't use anything but 'for'.

Yes, reading the rest of this thread, I think that that is a rather shaky amalgam of "hell for leather", and "hell-bent on...)

Only useful for song lyrics writers, as noted.

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@Lustig Andrei,

Lustig Andrei wrote:

Please kiss my elbow, JTT.

He's got to kiss my arse first

0 Replies

Hell-bent!

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