The State of Florida vs George Zimmerman: The Trial

If that is the case, then why did Zimmerman lie to the police?

Why have you been doing it with that duck next door? Does the farmer know about it??

Martin was walking around at a leisurely pace peering at houses, in the rain. What do YOU think he was up to??

Walking in the rain; that's not a crime in the US or anyplace else.

When people like you have more imagination than is normal, you end up killing innocent people.

Who walks around SLOWLY in the rain?? Most people want to get out of it ASAP...

I agree, the defense has been very good at getting useful statements from these witnesses.

I didn't realize, until I heard a legal commentator on one of the talk shows, that in this type of case, where the defendant alleges self-defense, the prosecution is obligated to put certain witnesses on the stand, even if their testimony might weaken the state's case. The state can't eliminate those witnesses simply because their testimony might bolster the possibility of self defense--so they had to put the neighbor who described Martin throwing MMA style punches at Zimmerman on the stand, they really have no choice in that, otherwise they can be accused of concealing evidence favorable to the defendant's self-defense claim. The defense can pick and choose their witnesses with much more leeway than the state has in a case like this. Consequently, many of those prosecution witnesses will also wind up benefiting the defense, and the defense has taken good advantage of that.

After I understood that, I had a more favorable view of what the prosecution is doing.

The state's case will hinge on attacking Zimmerman's credibility. They have already shown he needlessly followed Martin, and that behavior was provocative because it made Martin apprehensive. And Zimmerman was the pursuer, Martin was trying to get away from him. Those things do not support a self-defense claim, they raise doubts about it. Zimmerman's injuries were relatively minor--he showed no evidence of having been beaten with repeated punches, nor did Martin's hands have evidence of having done that, nor did those hands show any DNA evidence that they had been placed over Zimmerman's mouth. That already contradicts Zimmerman's version of events. And the woman who had been on the phone with Martin did offer some evidence that Zimmerman was the aggressor and the one who provoked the actual confrontation and altercation. That suggests Zimmerman was behaving recklessly. So, little by little, the state is building its case.

The initial chief police investigator should be an important witness. He was apparently concerned about all the inconsistencies in Zimmerman's account immediately after the shooting.

There is no smoking gun in this case. We're never going to know exactly what happened just before the gunshot. But some scenarios are more credible than others based on the evidence. And we will just have to wait and listen to all of the evidence to see how it adds up.

I agree with you about all of that. But that may add up to manslaughter.

Also, Zimmerman thought Martin was a criminal-type, and an adult, so maybe he had less hestitancy about pulling that trigger even if he didn't fear for his life. He certainly didn't seem overly concerned about the fact he had just killed someone after he had done it.

Well, the trial really is about Zimmerman and his actions.

Martin's parents sitting in that courtroom are constant reminders of Martin--that's why they are there.

I have many times. I was recently in Cuba, and the rains felt good after the heat and the humidity.

I've also done it in Chicago and San Francisco. Many people love to walk in the rain. Some people even "dance" in the rain, but you wouldn't know any of that. You believe the streets are always empty when it rains.

You're a dork with no brains.

You're right. In a legitimate self-defense case, Zimmerman should have no reason to lie about anything.

But, even from the little evidence we've heard, there was no DNA on Martin's hands to support Zimmerman's claim that Martin covered his mouth. The defense will suggest the rain washed it away, but the same rain didn't wash the blood on Zimmerman away, so that's a weak explanation.

Zimmerman's accounts were much more inconsistent and contradictory than they should have been for someone who was telling the truth.

On the issue of Zimmerman's credibility I am biased. We know Zimmerman is a deceitful liar from what went on at his bail hearing, and the exposure of how he and his wife shifted monies between accounts so he would appear indigent and get a lower bail. He lied to his own lawyer, and he let his wife lie to the judge. So, personally, I'm suspicious of anything Zimmerman says unless it's backed up by evidence.

Not only that, but the judge's instruction to the jury of any trial is that if they find that the defendant has lied about anything, they can question anything else the defendant says.

That's a very high mountain to climb when any defendant lies in a court.

In other words, he's fucked!

Is that a felony or a misdemeanor for those from the "land of the free"?

It also wasn't raining consistently when this was going on, it was raining on and off, and it was only drizzling some of the time.

For whatever reason, Martin wasn't in a hurry to get back to where his father's fiancée lives. Maybe he just liked getting a little exercise by walking around. But he was on his way back there, he was just taking his time about it. Martin really wasn't doing anything strange or inappropriate--he was walking around, talking on his cell phone, in a location where he had every right to be. The "suspicious activity" was all in Zimmerman's mind.

You said,

And the other bigots on this thread. Walking slowly or fast is not a crime.

I have kids next door that like to stay out in the rain. I guess they need to be shot because only a person up to no good would do that.

Zimmerman won't lie in court because he won't take the stand.

The defense can mount the self defense claim without his direct testimony.

The state will try to discredit Zimmerman through all the inconsistencies and contradictions in the accounts he gave to the police, and by showing evidence that does not support his accounts.

And the jury can't consider the lying at the bail hearing and how he shifted his assets around to hide them from his lawyer and the court. His wife still faces a perjury charge.

No, but somebody already said he lied to the police, and that's on the record.

Here's another piece that might be interesting - although it can be interpreted differently by the state or defense.
From Wiki.


So, how many judges makes mistakes that results in further crimes by the defendant?

You're leading the Fireflys, counselor.

They can't introduce that evidence from Zimmerman's past, CI. It's not relevant to the current case.

After the incident with the police officer, he was court ordered to attend anger management classes. He does have a past history of problems with aggressive impulses, but the jury in this case won't hear about that.

It's often the case that the public will have more info than the jury will be exposed to, which is one reason the court of public opinion may differ from the jury verdict.

Even if he lied to the police on his action against Martin?

Don't forget, there's also a witness who approached them, and Zimmerman asked that stranger to help him detain Martin.

If Martin's arms and hands were under his body as he sat on him, Zimmerman lied.

They can't say he lied, but they can, and will, point out his inconsistencies, and they will point to things he said that are either not backed-up, or are refuted, by the other evidence. Then it's up to the jury how credible they find his account.

The defense may claim his thinking was rattled by his head injury, and that's why he was inconsistent.

That's why the testimony of the first chief police investigator will be very important. He had questions about Zimmerman's accounts right after the shooting. He recommended that the D.A. charge Zimmerman with manslaughter, but the D.A. passed on that.

But as I have explained earlier, one lie can determine his fate.

Head injury was minor according the the medical caretaker of Zimmerman; no trauma.