The State of Florida vs George Zimmerman: The Trial

I mentioned that if Zimmerman were found "Not Guilty" I would be disappointed.

I am disappointed.

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

I mentioned that if Zimmerman were found "Not Guilty" I would be disappointed.

I am disappointed.

is this the same "disappointed" as when a student gets a D on a crap term paper? can you argue that this result is not the correct result?

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I think the reason the prosecution lost the case was that they never really had an answer for the holes in Zimmerman's story. Perhaps it wasn't enough to simply prove Zimmerman lied, which was true and was proven, they had to come up with who exactly threw the first punch. After all this time, no one really knows for sure and I suppose that is why he was found not guilty. Since the prosecution didn't have an alternate theory which could be supported by facts, I guess the jury decided they had to give the defendant the benefit of the doubt even though his story was not born out by the facts. We just have to trust that Zimmerman felt he was in reasonable fear of his life (even though he didn't really have any significant injuries) so he shot Trayvon Martin because it was not the defense's job to prove their client innocent. Its really depressing. I am not knowledgeable enough to know if they could have went ahead and found him guilty because they doubted his story, it seems to me they could have. But O'Mara did give that lecture about reasonable doubt and it seems to have worked.

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@revelette,

I think the idea of who threw the first punch is irrelevant. If Zimmerman pushed Martin then Martin started coming at him with both barrels, Zimmerman may have felt he needed to defend his life. To me this is the real risk is walking around carrying a gun. Zimmerman is overweight and out of shape, but when you put a gun in his hand, he thinks he's the man. I've read of this before, where someone gets a gun and suddenly they go out looking for confrontation. Where before they might cross the street if they saw some questionable people hanging out on a corner, now they go out of their way to walk through them. Do I think Zimmerman went out their with the intent to kill Martin? No. Do I think that he was looking for a confrontation and that he thought he had the upper hand because he was armed. Yes.

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

I mentioned that if Zimmerman were found "Not Guilty" I would be disappointed.

I am disappointed.

I consider u to be a sadist;
i.e., a man who derives pleasure from the pain of others.

U wanted to see your fellow American lose the next 30 years of his life.

I disapprove of that.

David

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@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

I consider u to be a sadist;
i.e., a man who derives pleasure from the pain of others.

That's not the correct definition of sadist. Algolagnia is the word you want.

Sadism is the projection of the ego on to the world in order to control it. You have it bad Dave. It concerns fear of disorder.

1 Reply

@spendius,

DAVID wrote:

I consider u to be a sadist;
i.e., a man who derives pleasure from the pain of others.

spendius wrote:

That's not the correct definition of sadist.
Algolagnia is the word you want.

Sadism is the projection of the ego on to the world in order to control it.

I disagree with u. That is not the history of the word,
whose derivation is from the practices of the Marquis de Sade.
Was he accused of trying to control the world?
That 's more Stalin n Hitler; (I will not deny that thay were sadists).

Wikipedia wrote:

Sadism is the derivation of pleasure as a result of inflicting pain,
cruelty, degradation, or humiliation, or, watching such behaviors inflicted on others.

spendius wrote:

You have it bad Dave. It concerns fear of disorder.

Spendius, it is rude to fake that u can read someone else 's mind
and then u tell him what he is thinking, unless he comes out and TELLS U what it is,
as Frank did; I took him at his word (i.e., his declared disappointment that Zimmy
will not be afflicted with the pain of 30 years in prison (10 to 30 years for manslaughter; a little worse for murder).
I have no fear of disorder. (Some folks around me [with whom I disagree] have expressed fear of black riots.)
I fear collectivism; I fear authoritarianism.
I hold it in abhorrence. I do not fear extant authority.
(I don't cringe when addressing the police; the same as a shoestore clerk.)
I do not fear disorder. I fear reduction of Individual freedom.
(For that reason, I stay away from your country.)
I wish to expand personal freedom at the expense of the authority
of government. I wish to behold the progressive constriction
and diminution of the jurisdiction of government.
I 'd turn the state of the law in America back to the early 1900s,
if I cud, to exalt freedom.

David

1 Reply

To be clear:
I do NOT allege that Frank derives any pleasure of a sexual nature
from his wish for the loss of Zimmy 's freedom and putting Zimmy into decades of nightmare.

The misadventures of the Marquis de Sade derove from sexual perversity.
I do not attribute that to Frank.

David

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@engineer,

engineer wrote:

I think the idea of who threw the first punch is irrelevant.
If Zimmerman pushed Martin then Martin started coming at him with both barrels,
Zimmerman may have felt he needed to defend his life.

I will agree that PUSHING Travon
wud have been an act of violence; it wud have made Zimmy the initial aggressor.
There is NO evidence that Zimmy was guilty of that.
In my opinion, it is self-embarrassing to speak in terms of such naked guesswork.
I 'd be ashamed to express myself that way.
Engineers r supposed to be practical n logical speaking as to tangible, concrete issues,
not getting into speculative whimsy. (Tell me if I am rong.)

engineer wrote:

To me this is the real risk is walking around carrying a gun.
Zimmerman is overweight and out of shape, but when you put
a gun in his hand, he thinks he's the man.

I beg to differ, Engineer.
Your post assumes, in error, that Zimmy KNEW
whether Travon was equally well armed (or better armed);
a very real possibility. Do u accuse Zimmy of being too dum to know
that bad guys r ofen well armed????????

I began carrying defensive firepower at the age of 8,
but I have never felt what u have alleged; I felt safer.
I felt better tranquility n serenity.
U propose that we all walk around in a state of HELPLESSNESS.
Cast our fate to the winds. Freely allow malicious predators
to enjoy a MONOPOLY of power. From that, I dissent.
I want the victim to have greater power than the predator
so that the victim can and will do what Zimmy did when he shot the bad guy.

engineer wrote:

I've read of this before, where someone gets a gun
and suddenly they go out looking for confrontation.

I read Alice in Wonderland, when I was 9.
I did not believe it. I guess u believed what u read.
In all the years, decades n centuries of my wearing emergency equipment,
I have NEVER felt that way; not even remotely.
Within my knowledge, no one in the gun freedom movement
at any of our meetings has ever intimated that he has felt nor done
what u said.
I 'd have thawt that he had a twisted brain, if he told me
that he felt that way or that he went looking for trouble.

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

I wish to expand personal freedom

Exactly. So did the Divine Marquis.

It's a loser's constant chant. You're playing with words to bolster your self-esteem. Some of us think that's babyish.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

I am also disappointed. I guess if one wants to get away with murder Flordia is the place to go.

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@RABEL222,

two more hurdles for Zimmerman. I read a piece that the DOJ was "concerned with the lack of a vigorous and well explained prosecution" that they are studying the evidence to see whether Zimmerman should or hould not be tried under Federal civil rights statutes.

Also, theres a Civil court phase

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@spendius,

DAVID wrote:

I wish to expand personal freedom

spendius wrote:

Exactly. So did the Divine Marquis.

It's a loser's constant chant.

I see. Spendius informs us
that losers desire freedom; he implies that winners
yearn for their liberty to be constricted n diminished.
That means that Winston Churchill was a loser; (did Hitler know that??).

spendius wrote:

You're playing with words to bolster your self-esteem.
Some of us think that's babyish.

Really?? How many of u "think" that??
Did u take a survey??
What is the source of your data on that point, Spendius ?

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

I fear collectivism; I fear authoritarianism.

. The prosecution has a lot to answer for in that it never really walked the standards of the case in front of the jury. It tried its case and the judge qnd the attornies argued the "manslaughter option" without the jury present. I blame the prosecution for NOT talking to the jury about the standards and bases of the law that dictate each possible verdict.
The DOJ suspects a poor prosecution also nd is looking into civil rights violations perped by Zimmerman on an innocent youth.

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@revelette,

I agree with you; the prosecution lost this case. Unfortunately, it makes a big difference whether one has a good attorney on your side or not.

I still believe the prosecution did a poor job.

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@farmerman,

Quote:

two more hurdles for Zimmerman...

More than two...

For the rest of his life, Zimmerman will have to worry that someone might be watching and following him, with malice in their heart, and a gun in their waistband, and he'll know how Trayvon Martin felt that night over and over again...

That's going to be the reality of his life.

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@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

engineer wrote:
I think the idea of who threw the first punch is irrelevant.
If Zimmerman pushed Martin then Martin started coming at him with both barrels,
Zimmerman may have felt he needed to defend his life.
I will agree that PUSHING Travon
wud have been an act of violence; it wud have made Zimmy the initial aggressor.
There is NO evidence that Zimmy was guilty of that.
In my opinion, it is self-embarrassing to speak in terms of such naked guesswork.

I 'd be ashamed to express myself that way.

My point was that even IF Zimmerman was the aggressor that doesn't invalidate the self defense argument. There is actually evidence of that in that the person Martin was on the phone with testified that Martin said "get off of me" implying some contact, but once again, that is beside the point.

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@engineer,

Well, I am starting to look at the whole thing in terms of my young granddaughters, what if someone starts a fight with them, they hit back and then that person pulls out a gun shoots them? I guess everyone needs to start carrying guns in their pockets, apparently even minors and just hope they get their gun off first and accurately.

1 Reply

I haven't paid a lot of attention to the trial, except for what was reported on the evening news.
I was however shocked while watching CNN this morning. Jesse Jackson actually had the nerve to blame the jury, claiming that since there were no men on the jury, and since there were no black women, that it wasn't a jury of Martin's peers, and the jury was at fault.

Last time I checked, a jury is supposed to be made up of the accused persons peers, not the victims.

I don't know if Zimmerman was guilty or not, I don't know if it was murder or not, but I do know that the system worked exactly the way it is supposed to work.
Like it or not, you must accept the verdict and support it.

Now that's all I am going to say about it.

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@firefly,

"looking over his shoulder" is a fact of his life for having made that decision to kill someone.

Itll be like the final scene of the SOPRANOS

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The State of Florida vs George Zimmerman: The Trial

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