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The State of Florida vs George Zimmerman: The Trial

 
 
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Jun, 2013 11:44 am
@gungasnake,
Trayvon Martin was not a trained Martial Arts expert. The pictures of the back of his head do not look like it was pounded over and again to the point where his life was in danger.

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1064773.1334928859!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/zimmerman21n-2-web.jpg
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Reply Fri 28 Jun, 2013 12:14 pm
Well, let's see now. The witness says HE DIDN'T SEE ANY BLOWS. Which basically means all he saw was a couple guys flailing around. Gunga maintains Trayvon was a TRAINED MMA fighter. Wanna provide some proof of training, snaKKKe? When I was his age, kids wrestled and boxed with each other all the time, and we weren't gangers, just playing at what we saw on TV. Today MMA is cool on TV. Only difference is, there was no Youtube to post on then, so no one could see how pathetically bad we were at it. No points for Zimmy.

Autopsy shows NO BLOOD OR DNA from Zimmerman on Trayvon's person or clothing. Yet Zimmerman maintained his head was pounded 20 or 30 times and he had blood all over. All that in the two minutes or so between the time he hung up his phone and the cops got there and he was standing over Trayvon's body. Physical evidence doesn't back him up. Timeline doesn't back him up. And Trayvon sure as hell had no chance to wash off any blood or DNA before he was murdered.
firefly
 
  3  
Reply Fri 28 Jun, 2013 12:14 pm
@revelette,
Quote:
The pictures of the back of his head do not look like it was pounded over and again to the point where his life was in danger

And Zimmerman didn't act seriously injured, or as though his head had just suffered a severe repeated pounding into the concrete.

For someone who had allegedly just been in a life or death struggle, and who had just killed someone, Zimmerman was pretty calm and collected when others arrived on the scene. That has always struck me as strange. I would think someone would be very shook up after those events.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Fri 28 Jun, 2013 12:23 pm
@MontereyJack,
I fought all the time as a kid, because I wore glasses, and almost everybody picked on me. I learned quickly that by fighting them, they left you alone. I had my shares of bloody nose and scrapes.

My older brother's report card used to have the American flag and gold stars, while mine said I fight too much.

That's how it was when I was a kid.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  3  
Reply Fri 28 Jun, 2013 12:24 pm
@MontereyJack,
"Mixed Martial Arts" is just a scary term for "fist fight."
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Fri 28 Jun, 2013 12:25 pm
@DrewDad,
And anyone who really knows martial arts knows that it's the choke hold that's scary as ****.
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Reply Fri 28 Jun, 2013 12:31 pm
Now here's what AP reports about Good's testimony:
Quote:


However, Jonathan Good said he did not see anyone's head being slammed into the concrete sidewalk, which Zimmerman has said Martin did to him. Good initially testified that it appeared "there were strikes being thrown, punches being thrown," but during detailed questioning he said he saw only "downward" arm movements being made.


Zimmerman has claimed that he fatally shot 17-year-old Martin last year in self-defense as the Miami-area teen was banging his head into the concrete sidewalk behind the townhomes in a gated community.

But under prosecution questioning, Jonathan Good said he never saw anyone being attacked that way during the fight between Zimmerman and Martin.

"I couldn't see that," Good said moments later while being cross-examined.

0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Reply Fri 28 Jun, 2013 12:35 pm
Gee, wonder why gunga's right wing wackos leave that part out in their reportage?
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Fri 28 Jun, 2013 12:41 pm
@MontereyJack,
Well, poking someone with my finger is "MMA-style" because, you know, fencing is a martial art.
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Jun, 2013 12:45 pm
geez, I actually was a competitive fencer in college. Epee is definitely best for poking. Guess that makes me a "trained martial arts expert",too. So I can speak with authority about Trayvon. Flying model planes doesn't qualify you, gunga.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Jun, 2013 01:07 pm
@gungasnake,
Quote:
Fri 28 Jun, 2013 12:32 pm

State's case has totally imploded and they still haven't gotten to the first defense witness.
Are you watching the trial gunga? Because if you are, your opinions aren't worth much because you've been a vocal Zimmerman supporter ever since day 1.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Jun, 2013 04:51 pm
@gungasnake,
So a witness states he didn't see Martin hitting Zimmerman and that bolsters Zimmerman's self defense case? You guys are so blinded by your beliefs you think no evidence of an attack is proof of an attack.
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Jun, 2013 08:26 pm
After three days of watching, I'm betting 10:1 that Zimmerman will walk. Contrary to what DrewDad told me in another thread, self-defense is not an affirmative defense in Florida. Zimmerman doesn't have to prove anything; the prosecution must carry the entire burden of proof. It's the prosecution that has to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Zimmerman did not act in self-defense. The witnesses so far have already contradicted each other (and sometimes themselves) enough to establish reasonable doubt. Barring a surveillance video of the entire fight, this case should be over.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Fri 28 Jun, 2013 08:56 pm
@Thomas,
I'm not that sure about how the jury will decide on this case. I'm gonna wait until the end of the trial - then maybe make a guess.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Fri 28 Jun, 2013 09:10 pm
@Thomas,
Self defense is an affirmative defense in Florida. Zimmerman acknowledges he killed Martin, but he alleges this was justifiable in defense of his own life. So, his justification for the homicide must be shown by the defense.

If the jury believes, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Zimmerman started the altercation, his claim of self defense would not apply because he was the aggressor.

If the fact he needlessly followed Martin is seen as the primary cause of the altercation, he may be found guilty of negligent homicide.

I'm not at all sure Zimmerman will walk. I don't think they will prove second degree murder, but it's difficult to absolve Zimmerman of any responsibility for Martin's death since Zimmerman's actions were instrumental in creating the conditions that led to that death. I think a manslaughter conviction is a possibility.

And Zimmerman's injuries were nowhere near life-threatening, and Martin was unarmed, so a case can be made that he responded with excessive force by using deadly force.

I'm not willing to make any bets yet. They haven't even gotten to all the inconsistencies and contradictions in Zimmerman's accounts to the police. And some of what he alleges happened is not supported by DNA evidence.
I also found the testimony of the young woman who was on the phone with Martin credible--and, from her account, Martin was trying to get away from Zimmerman, not getting ready to attack him.

There are still too many unanswered questions, in my mind, regarding justifiable self defense.

Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Fri 28 Jun, 2013 09:26 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:
Self defense is an affirmative defense in Florida. Zimmerman acknowledges he killed Martin, but he alleges this was justifiable in defense of his own life. So, his justification for the homicide must be shown by the defense.

That may be what Wikipedia says about most jurisdictions in America, but its not what the standard Florida jury instructions say. They state adamantly that any reasonable doubt about a killer's self-defense claim gets the defendant off the hook.

Quote:
If in your consideration of the issue of self-defense you have a reasonable doubt on the question of whether the defendant was justified in the use of deadly force, you should find the defendant not guilty. However, if from the evidence you are convinced that the defendant was not justified in the use of deadly force, you should find [him] [her] guilty if all the elements of the charge have been proved.

See Florida Standard Jury Instructions, under 3.6(f), page 4, second paragraph from the top.

To repeat: The defense does not have to prove anything. It's the prosecution that has to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Zimmerman's use of force was unjustified. That's a very tough burden of proof for it to carry. It seems clear, to me at least, that the witnesses have already slipped enough banana peels under the prosecution's heels to make it collapse under this heavy burden of proof.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Jun, 2013 10:06 pm
@firefly,
Aren*t you the lady that keeps telling others to wait for a verdict, FF?
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Jun, 2013 10:08 pm
@parados,
Quote:
You guys are so blinded by your beliefs ..


Hmmmm, none of you fellas seem to want to take on Thomas.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Jun, 2013 11:04 pm

If all citizens of Florida
exercised their First Amendment rights as Zimmy did,
there 'd be a lot less burglary in Florida.

( Admittedly, I 'd not do that,
in that I m too lazy for it and not civic minded. )





David
gungasnake
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 28 Jun, 2013 11:25 pm
@Thomas,
They'll need to find jobs for delarhumba and John Guy in Mike Nifong's Burger outlet...

http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/30000/Burger-Flipping-Mike-Nifong---30146.jpg
0 Replies
 
 

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