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The State of Florida vs George Zimmerman: The Trial

 
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jul, 2013 04:54 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
"the squeaky wheel gets the grease"
is how the political system is supposed to work,
That dictum expresses the wisdom of complaining
and of demanding BETTER.
It is not limited in its application to political governance,
but it is valid in all areas of human endeavor.
I 've ofen added to that the wisdom of shaking the tree,
to make the proverbial fruit fall out, as distinct from
docile, silent quiescence; i.e., the loudmouth is more likely
to get what he wants than a timid less aggressive man.






hawkeye10 wrote:
and the legal system is supposed to be insulated from that so that
it can devote itself to justice.
Let 's not forget that we can use the legal system
to acquire that to which we r entitled,
if we do it accurately.
U have identified yourself as being a socialist.
Since (and including) childhood I have been
an Individualist. I advocate that each of
the 3OO, OOO, OOO+ citizens, of all ages, shud
exploit the collective to the maximum.
I REVERSE Kennedy's foul, collectivist demand
that we ask not what I can do for u;
ask what u can do for me

to optimize Individual, hedonic aggrandizement.
We shud judge our lives by how well we have
crammed them full of personal joy and beauty.
(If the collective benefits from that, we can put up with it.)
Please note both my anti-authoritarianism
and my anti-collectivism.




hawkeye10 wrote:
I dont know how you can resist crying yourself to sleep at night
given what has become of the cause you devoted your life to.....
Hawkeye, let 's get something straight:
when I was a practicing trial attoney,
I was a hired gun.
The cause to which I devoted my life
was and IS maximal exploitation of the collective
by the Individual citizen for his optimal hedonic effect
.
Sound reasoning is employed to evoke those results.





hawkeye10 wrote:
this case is straight politics,
it never had anything to do with the law or the seaking of justice.
Yes; the Governor was and is afraid of race riots. Obviously,
he sacrificed & subordinated Zimmy 's convenience to this harassment,
to satisfy the blacks that were jumping (e.g., Sharpton).
Maybe Obama threatened him; I dunno.

I think that it was more than obvious to the Governor (who is not stupid)
that there 'd be no chance of a conviction in this factual state of affairs.





David
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jul, 2013 05:51 am
@Thomas,
I think the defense has established doubt. It's all over but the verdict.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 9 Jul, 2013 06:15 am
Quote:
...But the case isn't about race either. It's about a struggling middle class in a precarious economy trying to hang on to what it has. And it's about a culture of dropouts from the economy who celebrate thuggery and then pretend to be the victims. It's doubtful that anyone in Zimmerman's neighborhood who weathered multiple break-ins has much sympathy for the Martin family. And that's one reason that the prosecution hasn't found any useful witnesses....
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 9 Jul, 2013 06:16 am
http://drudgereport.com/

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTCA01n4QOEAepC7dS_w2a4vxzAjcw-90FlQ3-Fhr1YgzrDz3Hw
DrewDad
 
  5  
Reply Tue 9 Jul, 2013 07:10 am
@gungasnake,
It might surprise you to learn that people are convicted of murdering drug users quite frequently.

The question isn't whether Trayvon was a good person or a bad person; the question is whether Zimmerman was justified in using deadly force to defend himself.
gungasnake
 
  0  
Reply Tue 9 Jul, 2013 09:07 am
@DrewDad,
Quote:
The question isn't whether Trayvon was a good person or a bad person; the question is whether Zimmerman was justified in using deadly force to defend himself.



At least some part of the question is whether the combination of purple drank and reefer might have put the kid in a frame of mind to try to kill Zimmerman (or whether that state of mind simply came normally to him...)
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  4  
Reply Tue 9 Jul, 2013 09:29 am
gunga weighs in with another loony right fantasy. Have you ever actually smoked dope, gunga? It does not make you agressive, it makes you lethargic. Since traces of it stay in the body for around a month, and traces were all that were found, there's no indication it was current. It is also smoked by a very high percentage (nearly 40% in the past year)of high school kids in the country anyway. Purple drank's most common form is prescription cough syrup containing codein, Mountain Dew or Sprite, and Jolly Ranchers, none of which Trayvon had. To maintain that a kid with an Arizona Iced Tead and Twizzlers or whatever they were for his little brother, was using them for a potential drug drink is pure malicious fantasy. Besides, the effects of purple drank are "extreme somnolence" and "clinical weakness". In other words, like marijuana, it tends to put you to sleep. Had Trayvon been using both, he'd have been snoring in the backyard, not attcking Zimmerman. You sound like the whole 1930s-era "Reefer Madness" discredited hysteria. But then you always do.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jul, 2013 09:37 am
@DrewDad,
reasonable is evaluated after trying to put yourself in the position of the accused. thinking of this as a wanttabe ptotector of the collective meets wanttabe thug seems to work based upon what we know of these too.
RABEL222
 
  2  
Reply Tue 9 Jul, 2013 09:42 am
@OmSigDAVID,
One can only hope you get that kind of justice.
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  3  
Reply Tue 9 Jul, 2013 09:49 am
@hawkeye10,
more on the order of wannabe-mach0-hero-vigilante-singlehandedly-himself-solving-a-crime-wave-by-sudueing-suspected--criminal-the-cops-couldnt-get-and-gets-adulation-and-a-cop-job, versus wannabe-watching-the-game-on-tv-with-his-little-brother.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Tue 9 Jul, 2013 09:59 am
one of the big questions about this trial is why did the process eliminate men for the jury? my hunch is the the state wanted women in the hopes that they will consentrate on their empathy for the alleged victim rather than the law and deliver a guilty charge. I think that the defense is hoping that the law gets followed but wanted a jury of lower middle class, wanted to have people who understand zimmermans motivation to keep the thugs at bay and protect a way of life that has gotten very difficult to carry on in this depressionary times. so far reporters seem uninterested in the class level of the jury so I dont know how they did, but the deal "we will let you have the women you want if we can have the class we want" looks likely.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jul, 2013 10:15 am
@hawkeye10,
Here again, you're showing your ignorance. Both the defense and prosecuting attorneys approve each juror before they can serve.

Like I said, quit while you're behind. You're only digging a hole for yourself.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jul, 2013 10:32 am
@cicerone imposter,
the way it works is both sides have to agree to work together to get some if what they want, or else they get none of what they want as a jury needs to be picked and the judge has other cases to do and will lose patience. I would be surprised if I get proven wrong on what the deal was...I think that the state and the journalists are preoccupied with race but that the defense sees that this case is really about class and class aspirations.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jul, 2013 10:38 am
@hawkeye10,
Except the jurors aren't lower middle class.

They were just discussing 2 of the jurors on HLN--one used to be a chiropractor, the other is married to a chemical engineer. And another juror is married to an attorney.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jul, 2013 10:38 am
@hawkeye10,
You wrote,
Quote:
I think that the state and the journalists are preoccupied with race but that the defense sees that this case is really about class and class aspirations.


It's okay to have individual perceptions about things in life, but one must question their own biases when there's nothing in other people's perception that resembles your own.

What most people see is a confrontation between a guy with a gun and a black man who was walking in his father's neighborhood, and what transpired that caused the guy with the gun to shoot the black man. Those are the only evidence most people can go by. The court (the jury) will decide whether the shooter is innocent or guilty.

It doesn't matter what class or race the victim or defendant is. The jury must base it's conclusion on how they perceive the evidence presented during the trial.

0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jul, 2013 11:02 am
@firefly,
firefly wrote:

Except the jurors aren't lower middle class.

They were just discussing 2 of the jurors on HLN--one used to be a chiropractor, the other is married to a chemical engineer. And another juror is married to an attorney.

middle class is second best, people who have something to protect and can envision wanting to protect it. I think the defense wants people who will buy into zimmermans claim to be a protector, and who wont unduly hold it against him that he made mistakes and that this perceived threat happened to be a young black man. even better would be if this jury has the perception that young black men today tend to be violent thugs up to no good.
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jul, 2013 11:03 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
I think that the state and the journalists are preoccupied with race but that the defense sees that this case is really about class and class aspirations.


What does that even mean, much less what does it mean as it pertains to this case?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jul, 2013 11:04 am
@hawkeye10,
I doubt very much you understand the whole process of the jury/legal system in this country.
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jul, 2013 11:08 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
even better would be if this jury has the perception that young black men today tend to be violent thugs up to no good.


I just hope the jurors don't have racist perceptions such as that glaring example.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Tue 9 Jul, 2013 11:13 am
@revelette,
hawk has already revealed that he's a racial bigot and approves of sexual harassment in the work place.
0 Replies
 
 

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