The State of Florida vs George Zimmerman: The Trial

@Baldimo,

Quote:

M-16 in Vietnam? People didn't keep it clean and it jammed. There is never an excuse for a dirty gun,

Yes patrolling in the rain for a week in the jungle of Veitnam is an ideal situation for keeping a high tech and at the time poorly design and machine weapon clean!!!!!

The troops was throwing away their M-16s and picking up AK-47s from the enemy that did not care if they was clean or not!!!!!!!

Not since the French sold the American military in WW1 the Chauchat submachine gun have a worst piece of hardware been given to our troops.

Yes a redesign did solve most of those problems at what cost in American lives we will never know.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Ok so a redesign of a 40 year old rifle resolved some problems. Imagine what a brand new design of a semi-auto gun has done to reliability. Did you happen to watch the video I posted in the last post? Amazing what you can do with a modern semi-auto. The only thing that kept the weapon from functioning was the fact that they blew it up on the last test and this dislodged the slide from the frame. One had to have some adjustments made, and the other one worked with no issues. Remember this was after being blown up and thrown a few hundred feet.

1 Reply

@Baldimo,

Maybe about 2O or 25 years ago,
my friend, Cliff, won a 9mm Glock 17 as a door prize.

We went to a gunnery range.
I brought some of my guns n he brought his new Glock.
I tried it. Within the first 15 round magazine (stiff wrist),
it jammed 3 times, new out-of-the-box.
Better in a gun range than when u need it.

With all respect, I don t think much of 9mm rounds.
.44 special will more likely actually DO the job for u,
in terms of STOPPING POWER with hollowpointed slugs,
to apply the brakes within the target.

9mm is OK for hunting butterflies.

David

2 Replies

@OmSigDAVID,

Once again you are basing your opinion on old data and knowledge. Semi-auto's have changed a lot. If revolvers are so great, how come law enforcement no longer carry them, how come the military no longer carries them? Revolvers are good, but it is the opinion that is outdated.

Sure a .44 is going to do more damage then a 9mm, but that is why I will be carrying my 40sw.

2 Replies

@Baldimo,

They did similar testing at the time on the 1911 model A and got the same kind of results and yet I have such a weapon jam on me that was well taken care of on the range more then once.

Tests are fine an weapons should pass them before being put to used in the real world but no matter how impressed the manufacture can made their weapons look in tests not until they have a few years record in real world conditions should a verdict be given.

My S&M 357 will work no matter what and I can not say the same for any auto that I had ever own.

If that woman cop had have a revolver she could have return fire no matter how long it been since she clean it.

1 Reply

@Baldimo,

Baldimo wrote:

Once again you are basing your opinion on old data and knowledge. Semi-auto's have changed a lot. If revolvers are so great, how come law enforcement no longer carry them, how come the military no longer carries them?

I think that the answer is the larger magazines.
I doubt that there is any other superiority,
but I 'm not afraid to learn.

(OK, I will admit to marginally better accuracy with an automatic.)

2 Replies

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

My S&M 357 will work no matter what
and I can not say the same for any auto that I had ever own.

If that woman cop had have a revolver she could have
return fire no matter how long it been since she clean it.

The coppette uses an S & M .357 ????? Ouch !

0 Replies

@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

(OK, I will admit to marginally better accuracy with an automatic.)

When I single action my S&W I am far far far more accurate then with any auto.

1 Reply

@Baldimo,

Quote:

If revolvers are so great, how come law enforcement no longer carry them, how come the military no longer carries them?

For the very simple reason that the bean counters had come to the conclusion that it is not worth the time or money to teach accurate shooting and instead depend on the spray and pray method.

If you put 17 rounds downrange you are likely to get one or two hits on the target of course it is kind of hard on a neighborhood as happen in Miami not that long ago where they did indeed killed the bad guy even if at the cost of a large numbers of homes and park cars with bullets holes and a few cops with minor wounds from friendly fire.

0 Replies

@BillRM,

DAVID wrote:

(OK, I will admit to marginally better accuracy with an automatic.)

BillRM wrote:

When I single action my S&W I am far
far far more accurate then with any auto.

I 'd not fire a revolver double action
if I were going for accuracy.

David

0 Replies

@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

oralloy wrote:
I suppose OmSigDAVID recommends going with a .44 special?

That sounds ideal,
if it is loaded with hollowpointed slugs.

My concern would be that there would only be five rounds available in a timely manner, and also the gun would be quite bulky.

A little .45 auto could be reloaded quickly, and would be much slimmer than an L-frame .44

1 Reply

@oralloy,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

oralloy wrote:
I suppose OmSigDAVID recommends going with a .44 special?

That sounds ideal,
if it is loaded with hollowpointed slugs.

oralloy wrote:

My concern would be that there would only be five rounds available
in a timely manner, and also the gun would be quite bulky.

Back it up with a moon clip or another revolver.
I don t consider my .44 caliber Taurus Model 445 revolver to be bulky.

http://www.proguns.com/images/used-guns/usedguns247-904/278taurus445.jpg

oralloy wrote:

A little .45 auto could be reloaded quickly,
and would be much slimmer than an L-frame .44

I prefer smaller framed revolvers, with shorter barrels.

I 've seen the magazines fall out of automatics (prematurely).
That coud be embarrassing, when thay r needed.

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

With all respect, I don t think much of 9mm rounds.
.44 special will more likely actually DO the job for u,
in terms of STOPPING POWER with hollowpointed slugs,
to apply the brakes within the target.

9mm is OK for hunting butterflies.

The 9mm does better from the 8.5 inch barrels of submachine guns.

It is only when fired from handguns that it is "right on the margin".

I've often wondered how the 9mm would perform defensively from those 6-inch-barreled Glocks.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

With all respect, I don t think much of 9mm rounds.
.44 special will more likely actually DO the job for u,
in terms of STOPPING POWER with hollowpointed slugs,
to apply the brakes within the target.

9mm is OK for hunting butterflies.

oralloy wrote:

The 9mm does better from the 8.5 inch barrels of submachine guns.

Yes. The MP-5 is very, very sweet in its 9mm.
Its as if H & K repealed Newton 's 3rd Law of Motion.

oralloy wrote:

It is only when fired from handguns that it is "right on the margin".

Yes; I remember the case of a defending merchant
who put all 15 rounds into a robber before he eventually fell.
The D.A. did not approve of that.

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

I think that the answer is the larger magazines.
I doubt that there is any other superiority,
but I 'm not afraid to learn.

A .45 ACP can be made small and compact if the magazine is kept to a single column and the gun is specifically designed with compactness in mind.

0 Replies

@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

Back it up with a moon clip or another revolver.

Even moon clips don't really make for timely revolver reloads (though they are a definite improvement over bullet-by-bullet reloads).

"Multiple large revolvers" sounds like it could get cumbersome.

OmSigDAVID wrote:

I don t consider my .44 caliber Taurus Model 445 revolver to be bulky.

It is likely the equivalent of a S&W L frame.

N Frame = 8 rounds of .38/.357 or 6 rounds of .44/.45

L Frame = 7 rounds of .38/.357 or 5 rounds of .44/.45

K Frame = 6 rounds of .38/.357

J Frame = 5 rounds of .38/.357

An L Frame would be bulky compared to a really small .45 ACP

OmSigDAVID wrote:

I prefer smaller framed revolvers, with shorter barrels.

I could see carrying a little .38 revolver as a backup to a little .45 ACP

0 Replies

@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

Yes; I remember the case of a defending merchant
who put all 15 rounds into a robber before he eventually fell.
The D.A. did not approve of that.

I hope the jury approved. That sounds like nothing more than straightforward good shooting.

0 Replies

Quote:

OmSigDavid said: I don t consider my .44 caliber Taurus Model 445 revolver to be bulky

What a little beauty, not too big, not too small, I'd get something like that myself if guns were allowed in Britain.. Smile

Revolvers always seem more friendly-looking and reliable to me because we can see all their moving parts, unlike an enclosed auto.

2 Replies

@Romeo Fabulini,

Quote:

OmSigDavid said: I don t consider my .44 caliber Taurus Model 445 revolver to be bulky

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

What a little beauty, not too big, not too small, I'd get something like that myself if guns were allowed in Britain..
Revolvers always seem more friendly-looking and reliable to me because we can see all their moving parts,
unlike an enclosed auto.

Thank u, Romeo; very nice of u to say so. Its hard-hitting too.
Its reflectiveness save me one nite many years ago,
when someone took a shot at me on the road in very low lite conditions.
When my Stainless Steel Mirror .44 Taurus revolver came out,
thay screamed n fled.

David

0 Replies

@Romeo Fabulini,

U shud get a Stand Your Ground Law enacted in England, Romeo.

David

1 Reply

The State of Florida vs George Zimmerman: The Trial

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