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The State of Florida vs George Zimmerman: The Trial

 
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Sun 9 Feb, 2014 11:38 am
@firefly,
If Condoleezza Rice had been running for President
against Joe Biden or a Kennedy, then I 'd have voted for the black.
I 'd have donated money against collectivism and against authoritarianism.





David
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Sun 9 Feb, 2014 11:48 am
@Advocate,
Quote:
It seems as though the pro-Martin people are living in a different dimension, dreaming up their own nonfacts. Happily, the jury got the correct facts and quickly acquitted Zim.

The jury's verdict reflected no "facts" about the reasons for Trayvon Martin's actions toward Zimmerman, none. They had no way of knowing whether Martin was acting in self-defense, and the verdict does not take that into consideration.

I repeat what I said in an earlier post...;

The jury made no determination that Martin had "attacked" Zimmerman as opposed to Martin acting in his own self-defense. How the final altercation/struggle actually started is not known, apart from Zimmerman's questionable version of events, and Zimmerman did not testify at his trial. But there was no evidence to support a "sucker punch" or an "attack"--BillRM is simply regurgitating what Zimmerman told the police. Martin, who had been pursued in the dark by this stranger, who never identified himself or his motives, may well have been acting/reacting in his own self-defense to direct provocation by Zimmerman.

The jury found Zimmerman Not Guilty of murder. They didn't find Trayvon Martin guilty of anything, including "attacking" Zimmerman--Martin wasn't the one on trial, and no one witnessed how the confrontation/struggle came about. The verdict pertained only to whether Zimmerman shot Martin because he wanted to, or because he felt he had to in order to protect himself from grave harm, and Zimmerman was given the benefit of the doubt regarding self-defense, in accord with Florida law. That doesn't mean Zimmerman wasn't responsible for creating the events that led to the shooting, it means simply that the jury gave him the benefit of the doubt about why he pulled the trigger.

The verdict does not completely absolve Zimmerman of all moral responsibility for this death. The police investigation concluded that this was an avoidable and needless death, had Zimmerman simply remained in his vehicle after his phone call to the police, instead of pursuing Martin as he did, and that he further failed to defuse the situation he created by never identifying himself to Martin.

And Zimmerman has continued to display provocative, and menacing, and threatening, behavior toward others since his acquittal--including assaulting his father-in-law during a domestic violence incident.

While I accept the jury's verdict, I am not at all sure the jury got it right. In many other states, beside Florida, the fact that that Zimmerman was the pursuer, who recklessly instigated and brought about a needless and avoidable confrontation, because of his own personal obsessions, would have likely resulted in a manslaughter verdict.

Advocate
 
  1  
Sun 9 Feb, 2014 11:55 am
@firefly,
Zim is a hero. He was volunteering his time to protect his neighbors, who were plagued by break-ins. He correctly followed someone walking in the development. Martin told his friend on in a cell phone call that he was being followed by a "crack-ass whitey." This certainly says that Martin was the racist, and explains his attack on Zim.
coldjoint
 
  1  
Sun 9 Feb, 2014 12:17 pm
Quote:
This is the load of hogwash – for lack of a better term – which underlies each and every protestation of the fact that George Zimmerman still dares to exist and breath the air on their planet. And it’s based on fiction. The new line of attack on Zimmerman is that he is someone who wanted to be “a celebrity” and to “profit off the death of Trayvon Martin.” And of course, since we all know he’s guilty (American judicial system be damned) we need to make sure that his life is as miserable as possible. They didn’t get what they wanted in a court of law, so now they will seek to exact vigilante justice through the power of the liberal media.


Firefly someone is talking about you and your ilk.

http://hotair.com/archives/2014/02/09/george-zimmerman-dmx-fight-cancelled-liberals-take-victory-lap/
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Sun 9 Feb, 2014 12:21 pm
@Advocate,
Quote:
Martin was no angel. He had built up quite a record for a 17-year-old, which seemed to say that his future would be living in a prison or killed by someone

Martin had no "record" of criminal activity or anti-social behavior, or run-in's with the police, in the community--none. He had no history of displaying aggressive behavior toward others--none.

Yes, he appeared to have minor school related problems, that his parents were concerned about and were addressing, he had just transferred into a new school, but there is nothing in his history to at all justify calling this teen a "hoodlum" or a "thug" or your conclusion that this "seemed to say that his future would be living in a prison or killed by someone". That's absolutely absurd. No one said Martin was an absolute angel, few 16 year olds are, but he also did not deserve to be hunted down and stalked like prey by a wannabe cop, as he was minding his own business and walking home from a trip to the store.

You are trying to imply that this kid's death did not matter, that it's just as well George Zimmerman killed him, because he either would have wound up in prison or killed by someone else, and that's a revoltingly vile way of trying to diminishing the significance of the life Zimmerman took, and it provides no excuse, at all, for Zimmerman's impaired judgment and reckless action, that led to the circumstances under which this death occurred.

Martin was a kid from a good, hard-working, decent, supportive, middle class family, and his future plans included attended college, just like his older brother. There is no reason to believe that he would not have had a successful and bright future ahead of him.



Romeo Fabulini
 
  2  
Sun 9 Feb, 2014 12:29 pm
From The Daily Mail article-
"Trayvon Martin was suspended from school three times in the months before he was shot dead by a neighborhood watchman...he was caught with a 'burglary tool' - a flathead screwdriver - and 12 pieces of women's jewellery.
Earlier, he had been suspended for skipping school and showing up late to class. And most recently, in February, he was suspended again when officials found a 'marijuana pipe' and an empty baggie with traces of the drug"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2120504/Trayvon-Martin-case-He-suspended-times-caught-burglary-tool.html


I like that term "neighborhood watchman" to describe George because it conjures up the comforting image of him patrolling a medieval castles battlements at night to keep the occupants safe and secure..Smile
Waddya say Colonel?

"Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns.
You WANT George on that wall, you NEED George on that wall!"

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/sub2/Nicholson-FGM.jpg
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  2  
Sun 9 Feb, 2014 12:31 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
but there is nothing in his history to at all justify calling this teen a "hoodlum" or a "thug"


Read his Facebook posts.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Sun 9 Feb, 2014 12:39 pm
@Advocate,
Quote:
Zim is a hero.

Funny, he didn't seem like a hero to many of his neighbors after the shooting--particularly to the black neighbors who began to fear for the safety of their own children in that housing complex.
Quote:
Trayvon Martin's killing shatters safety within Retreat at Twin Lakes in Sanford
March 24, 2012

These days, Cheryl Brown has to walk the dog. • For a month — ever since her son heard someone screaming for help and her daughter called 911 and everyone heard the loud snap of a gunshot — Brown's children have been afraid to go outside. • Her youngest daughter, who is 9, won't even look out the window. She keeps seeing the dead teen's body. • "That could have so easily been my son," said Brown. "He wears hoodies all the time."

Brown, a 40-year-old single mom who says she is "mostly black," moved into the Retreat at Twin Lakes last year. She chose the gated subdivision of identical townhomes because it is racially diverse, lots of children live there and, she said, "it seemed so safe."

Then, on Feb. 26, neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon Martin, 17, as he walked from a 7-Eleven with iced tea and a bag of Skittles. Now, Brown's children linger inside. And she does dog duty.

On Wednesday, her white boxer, Sake, led her along the sidewalk, then turned onto a manicured path stretching between two rows of townhouses. Brown stopped and pointed to a patch of shade beneath a scrawny maple tree.

"This is where Trayvon was killed," she said. "He was almost home."

No blood stains the grass where he lay. No flowers or football or Skittles have been placed there to remember the teenager whose death has sparked a national outcry.

A memorial of balloons, teddy bears and cans of Arizona Iced Tea is growing outside the front gate.

Inside the fence, everything still looks the same. Except it's not.

The building of the Retreat at Twin Lakes is a classic Florida story.

Developers saw potential in the sandy acres east of Orlando and determined to turn them into an oasis. They planned a gated subdivision just 10 minutes from downtown — a cloistered community near the interstate, close to good schools, outlet malls and the magic of Disney World.

The idea, as always, was that people could live peacefully in a paradise where nobody could park a car on the street or paint the house an odd color.

In 2004, Engle Homes began construction on 263 two-story townhouses, with upstairs porches and covered back patios and plenty of green space. Inside, the townhomes boasted granite countertops, hardwood floors, master suites and walk-in closets. Outside, there was a pond, a clubhouse and a community pool.

Everything was walled in, to keep out the unknown.

"With its modern Florida architecture, this secluded, gated community is like living in a resort," a spokesmodel says in a promotional video posted on YouTube. "It's the perfect choice for those looking for space and comfort."

The initial cost of a 1,400-square-foot townhome and the pass code to that front gate: $250,000. Today, post-boom, the price has dipped below $100,000.

George Zimmerman, 28, moved into the Retreat in the summer of 2009 with his wife, Shellie. Records show he worked at a pressure-washing company, though neighbors said they never saw a truck.

Right away, he started calling the police. The 911 operators translated his complaints into the bloodless shorthand of law enforcement.

Aug. 26, 2009: "Male driving with no headlights on."

Sept. 22, 2009: "Yellow speed bike doing wheelies."

Oct. 23, 2009: "Aggressive white and brown pit bull."

The transcripts of Zimmerman's 911 calls during the more than two years he lived on Retreat View Circle fill 28 pages. His concerns include everything from the driver of a pickup cutting off people to a neighbor leaving his garage door open.

He kept a close watch for outsiders, but it couldn't have been easy to tell who belonged and who didn't. When the housing market crashed, many townhomes were foreclosed on and the owners evicted. Dozens of investors, unable to unload the two- and three-bedroom properties, rented them to cover their upside-down mortgages.

The developers had envisioned a stable neighborhood with home­owners planting long-term roots, but now townhouses were turning over all the time. Insiders moved out. Outsiders moved in.

By the time Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin, 40 properties inside the gate were empty and more than half of the residents were renters.

Including Brandy Green, who was dating Martin's dad. And Zimmerman himself.

Trayvon Martin lived with his dad, who resides in the Miami area, and had visited his dad's girlfriend at the Retreat several times before. The kids in the neighborhood always looked forward to playing football with him. But to George Zimmerman, he was a stranger.

Last summer, residents reported three burglaries at the Retreat, said Sanford police volunteer coordinator Wendy Dorival. At the time, workers were repairing cracks in some of the buildings. Some residents worried they were leaving their ladders up — and teenagers in the Retreat were using them to break into upstairs windows. Others feared outsiders were sneaking in.

Gated communities aren't really any safer than other neighborhoods, said David Morgenstern, spokesman for the Sanford Police Department. "Crime is comparable no matter where you go. All that gate does is make the people who live in that community feel better.

"If a criminal wants to get in, they can."

It's not hard. Drivers draft behind residents with remote control passes, following them before the gates swing closed. Old renters retain the pass code and share it. Landscapers, pizza delivery people and repairmen all have access.

After the break-ins, Zimmerman's calls to 911 seemed to shift, zeroing in on black males. Were black males actually responsible for any of the crimes reported in the Retreat? Impossible to say. Morgenstern, the police spokesman, said last week that he was too overwhelmed with media requests to get the arrest records on individual cases.

In police argot, anyone Zimmerman called about was a "suspicious person," but of course it was Zimmerman who was suspicious.

Aug. 3, 2011: "Black male with white tank top and black shorts … (Zimmerman) believes subject is involved in recent (burglaries) in the neighborhood."

Aug. 6, 2011: "Two black males, one wearing black tank top … are near the back gate of the neighborhood."

In September, the Sanford police helped the Retreat start a neighborhood watch program.

"Some residents called me wanting to do a startup," said Dorival, a civilian police employee. About 30 people came to the clubhouse for that first session, she said. "Everyone was enthusiastic." Zimmerman volunteered to be captain.

"I told them, this is not about being a vigilante police force," Dorival said. "You're not even supposed to patrol on neighborhood watch. And you're certainly not supposed to carry a gun."

For the first two months of this year, at the Retreat at Twin Lakes, the Sanford police logged 51 calls for service. Half were just people requesting information. The others included eight burglaries, two bike thefts and three simple assaults...

Cheryl Brown was at a Walmart that night when her daughter called, crying. She hurried home to find police blocking the gates to her subdivision. She parked her car across the street and ran to her kids.

Her son, Austin, was hysterical. He had been right there, walking the dog, when he heard the cry for help. But then Sake had pulled off the leash. As her son chased the boxer, he had heard the gunshot.

"What if the dog hadn't gotten loose? What if he had tried to help? My son is 13," Brown said. "He looks a lot like Trayvon."

For her son's whole life, Brown said, she has told him: If someone's chasing you, run. "What if it's a kidnapper? Or someone trying to beat or rob you?" she asked.

She stopped walking the dog and shook her head. "But if he runs, does that make him even more suspicious?" Brown wiped her eyes. "What makes someone suspicious? That's what worries me the most."

Every building at the Retreat at Twin Lakes is painted some shade of brown: taupe, terra cotta, khaki. Every townhome has a garage out front and a keypad on the door handle — so if someone steals your keys they can't get inside. Dozens of yards have signs alerting would-be intruders of alarm systems.

"It is a peaceful place. We don't have problems here," Tito Ortiz, 62, said the other day beside his mailbox. A former minister, Ortiz remarried five years ago and bought a house in the Retreat for his new bride. Somewhere they would be safe to grow old together.

"I don't know what happened with that boy. I'm so surprised that happened here," he said. But he doesn't worry about staying in the neighborhood and has no intention of moving. "We are still going to find our peace here."

Many residents of the gated community declined to talk to reporters. Others were eager to give their opinions, but not their names. Several said they had started carrying guns.

No one had seen Zimmerman. Or Trayvon Martin's dad. Except on the news.

Jamie Meyers, 26, and her two preschoolers walked through the neighborhood to place silk violets on the teenager's memorial. She and her husband moved here two years ago to be behind a gate, to be surrounded by other families with kids. "We're thinking about moving now," said Meyers, who teaches middle school. "We don't want to stay here, in a place something like this could happen."

The next day, on the other side of the complex, Thomas Ransburg, 20, was outside talking to his girlfriend. Ransburg has lived behind the gate since January, he said, and sees no reason to move now.

A few months ago, he was hanging out with a friend who lives in another townhouse. "But that day, he forgot his key," said Ransburg. So they walked around to the back patio and opened the sliding glass door. Someone saw them and called the police. They spent four hours at the station, trying to convince investigators his friend really lived there. "They thought we were trying to rob it or something," he said.

Ransburg, who is black and wears long dreadlocks, laughed at the memory, swore it didn't make him angry, and said he understood. "I don't think it was racial," he said. "I guess we just looked suspicious. Everyone's always been real friendly back here. People smile and wave. All the little kids run around. There's always laughter."

Just then, three teenage males walked through the unlocked side gate, down the walkway toward Ransburg. T.J. Jones and his twin brother, T.Y., 14, and their cousin James Young, 13, have lived in the complex for two years. Their moms moved here from apartments to give the boys more room and a safe place to play.

The boys, who are black, used to play football with Trayvon Martin "right there on that grass where he died," said T.Y.

He told Ransburg that their mom won't let them outside after dark anymore. She is worried someone might think they are "suspicious or something," said T.J. "She keeps telling us to be careful."

Ransburg nodded, and pointed at the townhouse across the street. "You see that door? That's my door," he told the boys. "If anyone is ever bothering you or following you, if you ever feel scared, that's my door. Knock on it. I'll be there to get your back."

The community pool was empty that afternoon. So was the clubhouse. On the bulletin board, there were two fliers. One was a notice from the homeowners' association: "All residents are part of the Neighborhood Watch program and are encouraged to get to know your neighbors and look out for one another! … There is also a neighborhood watch meeting with Officer Wendy on Thursday, March 29th, 7 p.m."

The other flier said simply, "Neighborhood Watch meeting canceled."
http://www.tampabay.com/news/humaninterest/trayvon-martins-killing-shatters-safety-within-retreat-at-twin-lakes-in/1221799

Advocate
 
  1  
Sun 9 Feb, 2014 12:48 pm
@firefly,
Your post is not about facts. It is just a recitation of irrational, alleged, thoughts. I think these people appreciate the protection Zim gave them, but would be afraid ;to admit it.
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Sun 9 Feb, 2014 12:53 pm
@Advocate,
I think your post is a fine example of irrational, alleged thought, Advocate. It's certainly fact-free and is sheer speculation on your part, as you yourself must realize.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Sun 9 Feb, 2014 01:00 pm
@Advocate,
Quote:
Your post is not about facts. It is just a recitation of irrational, alleged, thoughts. I think these people appreciate the protection Zim gave them, but would be afraid ;to admit it.

There is nothing irrational about the fears of black parents that someone will take one look at their son and decide, based on his skin color, that he is "suspicious" or a possible criminal, or "up to no good" and then act on those fears in a way that will result in harm to their child.

Unfortunately, those are very realistic fears for black parents, and Zimmerman confirmed them.

You're too narrow-minded and egocentric to understand that. And you don't want to listen to the black voices who might help you to understand it.
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  2  
Sun 9 Feb, 2014 01:12 pm
Based on current rates of first incarceration, an estimated 32% of black males will enter State or Federal prison during their lifetime, compared to 17% of Hispanic males and 5.9% of white males.
Janet Reno's Justice Department flatly states that "blacks are 8 times more likely than whites to commit homicide"
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message2092547/pg1
BillRM
 
  2  
Sun 9 Feb, 2014 01:13 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
they demean a kid who was killed for no justifiable reason


LOL is all such a silly statement deserve..
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Sun 9 Feb, 2014 01:41 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
Quote:
Based on current rates of first incarceration, an estimated 32% of black males will enter State or Federal prison during their lifetime

So?

That also means that 68% of black males won't enter state or federal prison during their lifetime.

And, in that group, some, like Trayvon Martin's brother, and, as Trayvon planned to do, will go on to college, some will also go to grad school and enter one of the professions, some, like Trayvon Martin's uncle, will enter the military and help to defend our country, and others might even go on to become the President of the United States.

Meanwhile, you're the one who wound up in jail. Laughing
firefly
 
  1  
Sun 9 Feb, 2014 02:03 pm
Quote:
Florida rally commemorates Trayvon Martin's death as Zimmerman, DMX boxing match is canceled

Hundreds in Miami Gardens, Fla., marched to remember the second anniversary of Trayvon Martin's death, including actor Jamie Foxx and the families of Emmett Till and Oscar Grant. Martin was killed on Feb. 26, 2012, by George Zimmerman, who was set to fight rapper DMX in a 'celebrity' boxing match before it was canceled Saturday.

By Stephen Rex Brown
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
February 8, 2014

A nauseating boxing match between Trayvon Martin’s killer and a cash-strapped rapper is going down for the count.

Celebrity boxing promoter Damon Feldman announced on Twitter Saturday he canceled a controversial fight between George Zimmerman and DMX.

“It was my decision to cancel the george zimmerman fight it was worth a lot of money to me but people’s feelings meant more to me,” Feldman tweeted.

The appalling match, which would have profited from the death of 17-year-old Martin, was originally slated for March 1.

Both fighters could use the cash. Zimmerman, 30, who was acquitted of the second-degree murder in 2013, is said to be overwhelmed by legal bills. DMX filed for bankruptcy in July.

“I walked away from (a) million dollar payday with this fight but to be honest I’d rather be happy and make people happy thank you,” Feldman tweeted.

If the match had taken place, it likely wouldn’t have been a fair fight, anyway. Feldman has said his fights featuring has-beens like Jose Canseco, Tonya Harding and Rodney King are akin to “the WWE of boxing.”

As the shameful publicity stunt fell apart, hundreds of people marched in Miami Gardens, Fla., to commemorate the second anniversary of Martin’s death.

Actor Jamie Foxx addressed the crowd and said violence affected everyone, regardless of their color or creed.

“It’s not about race nor color, but peace for our children,” said Foxx, according to tweets from the march.

Other attendees at the gathering — which took place three days after what would have been Martin’s 19th birthday — were no stranger to racially charged tragedies.

The family of Emmett Till, a 14-year-old murdered in Mississippi in 1955 after flirting with a white girl, joined the march.

The family of Oscar Grant was also present.

Grant, 22, was fatally shot in Oakland on New Year’s Day 2009 by a BART police officer while in handcuffs.

The case inspired the film “Fruitvale Station.”

A gala hosted by The Trayvon Martin Foundation will be held Sunday in Davie, Fla.

Martin’s death on Feb. 26, 2012, ignited a fierce national debate about race and the justice system’s treatment of cases involving minorities.

Zimmerman, an armed neighborhood watchman and cop wannabe, initiated the deadly confrontation with the hooded Martin, who was merely returning from an errand.

Zimmerman insisted he feared for his life when he pulled the trigger, and was acquitted of murder charges.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/florida-rally-remembers-trayvon-martin-celebrity-match-canceled-article-1.1607256#ixzz2srAlEJ6l
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sun 9 Feb, 2014 02:07 pm
@firefly,
This is worth repeating.
Quote:
......initiated the deadly confrontation with the hooded Martin, who was merely returning from an errand.
Baldimo
 
  4  
Sun 9 Feb, 2014 03:31 pm
@firefly,
I hope this article was listed as an opinion piece and not a news article. It is filled with enough double standards to choke a horse.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  2  
Sun 9 Feb, 2014 03:44 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Re: firefly (Post 5576282)
This is worth repeating.
Quote:
......initiated the deadly confrontation with the hooded Martin, who was merely returning from an errand.


LOL I always walk slowly in the rain checking out the homes along the way when returning from a store.
BillRM
 
  2  
Sun 9 Feb, 2014 03:46 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
they demean a kid who was killed for no justifiable reason


No reason at all but to save his life from an attacker as a jury found.
BillRM
 
  2  
Sun 9 Feb, 2014 03:49 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
REVERSED, then I 'd have been rooting against the white.


Of course and in my view, in any case, neither of the two actors in this drama happen to be white.

The ones who are racists without question is CI and firefly.
0 Replies
 
 

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