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The State of Florida vs George Zimmerman: The Trial

Forums: Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman, Law, Current Events, Criminal Justice
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BillRM
 
  1  
Sat 7 Dec, 2013 02:06 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
some guys lose jobs, kids, and a lot of money from the lies. maybe you got off easy.


Well I did go in a year time from having a few years worth of salary in savings to being on the edge of bankruptcy and if it was not for my ex-wife cursing out the bank vic president that over saw my home mortgage to the point he was more then willing to work with me I might had ended up in bankruptcy court.
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Sat 7 Dec, 2013 02:09 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
Of course if he had not been a hoodlum that his parents had not
taught him to have respect for adults he would be alive today.

I can not dream even now of attacking Zimmerman under the
conditions of that night let alone when I was a 17 years old.

Well, wait, let 's back up a little.
I don t wanna go too far in the other direction.
I only suggested that martin 'd be OK if he had "been nice".
I did not suggest that he go as far as to undermine his own dignity
in addressing Zimmy, because he was older than martin.
It is very possible to be nice without grovelling.
I have repeatedly tried to draw a distinction between
what happened to martin and what happened to me
last summer in NY when I returned to my old naborhood,
in a spirit of nostalgia.

I was confronted about 4AM, and all conversation was pleasant
at the expense of no one 's dignity. I do not suggest that kids
shud cower nor abase themselves b4 their elders; I never did,
but I did not beat their heads on the street, either.




BillRM wrote:
A simple hello would have end stop any problems instead of a full blown attack.
Yes; just ez going conversation wud probably yield no problems. "A soft answer turneth away wrath".

I suspect that martin wanted to pound Zimmy
and to brag about it to his MMA friends.





David
firefly
 
  1  
Sat 7 Dec, 2013 02:14 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
i am going to take a wild guess that your experience with the protective order system where a woman can make a lying statement about a man that will be automatically believed by the state ...

BillRM had legal rights in that situation, that he was duly informed of, that he failed to exercise. He allowed what his wife said to go unchallenged in court--that was his decision.

For BillRM to illogically assume that all women lie, because some do, is as nonsensical as Zimmerman assuming that all unfamiliar black males he saw in his housing complex were "up to no good" because a few blacks had committed burglaries there. It wasn't an all-white community--blacks lived there, and had house guests, friends, and relatives visiting them.
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Sat 7 Dec, 2013 02:19 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
my ex-wife cursing out the bank vic president that over saw my home mortgage to the point he was more then willing to work with me I might had ended up in bankruptcy court.
clearly he did not understand that she was traumatized by your abuse or that when a woman accuses a man of abuse the man is properly ostracized from polite society and all of the benefits herewithin.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Sat 7 Dec, 2013 02:22 am
@hawkeye10,
In Zimmerman's case, it seems to be, "Hell hath no fury like George Zimmerman when a woman dumps him."

The man goes ballistic when women want to get rid of him.

And, who knows how much anger was already simmering in him the night he spotted Trayvon Martin, since his wife had walked out on him the day before.

0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Sat 7 Dec, 2013 02:27 am
@firefly,
Quote:
BillRM had legal rights in that situation, that he was duly informed of, that he failed to exercise. He allowed what his wife said to go unchallenged in court--that was his decision.
self proclaimed victims get tons of help for free but accused abusers get handed a few pages of legal mumbo jumbo and need to pay the freight bill of they want to play in the legal system to refute the charges. government is stamping on one side of the scale of justice, the poor schmuck guy on the other end knows before he starts how this is probably going to end.

Quote:
is as nonsensical as Zimmerman assuming that all unfamiliar black males he saw in his housing complex were "up to no good" because a few blacks had committed burglaries there.


Quote:
There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery. Then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved.... After all we have been through. Just to think we can't walk down our own streets, how humiliating.

jesse jackson
firefly
 
  1  
Sat 7 Dec, 2013 02:32 am
@hawkeye10,
Oh ****, BillRM already had a lawyer. So did his ex-wife.

BillRM had legal rights, that he was advised of, that he chose not to exercise.

Your canned spiel doesn't apply in his case.

And it's Zimmerman who seems to be making a career of being a professional victim, when he's the one with the anger management problem who keeps provoking and threatening others.
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Sat 7 Dec, 2013 02:36 am
@firefly,
Quote:
Oh ****, BillRM already had a lawyer. So did his ex-wife.
she could easily enter the legal arena for free, hell, get charity money too. the man on the other hand needs to pay to play, he gets no assistance but bills instead. this is not how a system that cares about justice would work. our system picks intended winners and intended losers. you know which side I think men are on.
firefly
 
  1  
Sat 7 Dec, 2013 02:39 am
@hawkeye10,
A man who is abused by a domestic partner has access to the same government services as a female would.

And Zimmerman's the one doing the threatening and terrorizing of his partners. All they want to do is get rid of him, and he's the one who won't go away peacefully.

That's all Trayvon Martin wanted that night too--he just wanted Zimmerman to stop following him and leave him alone. Zimmerman couldn't do that either.

Zimmerman is a very hot-tempered vindictive dude.

0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Sat 7 Dec, 2013 03:01 am
@firefly,
firefly wrote:
It wasn't an all-white community--blacks lived there,
and had house guests, friends, and relatives visiting them.
Yes, and POUNCING on Zimmy,
when he follows them.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Sat 7 Dec, 2013 03:09 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
your hostility towards women who lie about rape with zero negative consequences comes from.


Yes indeed that is one of the most important elements in my hostility toward women who will game the system and even when it is proven to be all falsehoods there hardly any meaningful punishment for doing so.

The harm to me that resulted from my ex-wife lying was not from the criminal justice system but from it preventing me from being able for decades to completely trust another woman even one that had
proven over decades that I could trust her.
U can trust ANYONE, but its not advisable.





David
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sat 7 Dec, 2013 07:30 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

BillRM wrote:

Quote:
So am I correct though...that you are against laws that prohibit stalking?


No under very extreme cases the stalking laws can have a useful function but such laws are all to easy to misused and can results in more injustice then they was suppose to stop. They need to be written and apply with great care.


I gotta be honest with ya, Bill...it sounds an awful like you are against stalking laws to me.

Perhaps you would be happy with stalking laws that exempt anyone who owns a gun.



Quote:
Now the very idea that a citizen following someone in order to guide the police to the person being follow is a fine example of the complete and almost insane used of the concept of such laws.


There is a lot that seems "almost insane" about this situation, Bill...but the idea of laws against stalking is not one of them.

Quote:
In other word your wish to cover the following of a maybe criminal are a fine example of the danger such laws can have on innocent actions and in fact very useful actions.


I'd love to comment on this, but I cannot decipher it. Could you give it one more attempt please.
The only stalking laws that I have ever heard of
do NOT apply and have NO effect UNLESS movant gets a JUDICIAL INJUNCTION
against the stalker telling him to cease & desist from further stalking.

IF u know of other requirements of law concerning stalking,
then I entreat u to let us know what thay r.
Maybe some jurisdictions have invented other legal concepts; I dunno. PLease tell us.
We look forward to your advice, Frank.

David


Nice try, David, but no cigar.

I have already mentioned that I am not a lawyer...and I do not know about stalking laws.

I am talking about the law. I am not talking about whether stalking is right or wrong.

I am merely saying that Zimmerman was stalking Martin.]

I hope that finally gets home to you, David.
BillRM
 
  2  
Sat 7 Dec, 2013 07:41 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
I am talking about the law. I am not talking about whether stalking is right or wrong.

I am merely saying that Zimmerman was stalking Martin.]


First following to guide cops to a person you think might be up to no good is not stalking and next there is zero repeat zero wrong in doing so.

The only one who did anything wrong that night legally or morally or in any other manner would be Trayvon.
BillRM
 
  2  
Sat 7 Dec, 2013 07:46 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
I suspect that martin wanted to pound Zimmy
and to brag about it to his MMA friends.


That would be my guest also as to why he launch such an all out attack on Zimmerman instead of going home as he could had always scope the neighborhood out some other time.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sat 7 Dec, 2013 07:56 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
I am talking about the law. I am not talking about whether stalking is right or wrong.

I am merely saying that Zimmerman was stalking Martin.]


First following to guide cops to a person you think might be up to no good is not stalking and next there is zero repeat zero wrong in doing so.

The only one who did anything wrong that night legally or morally or in any other manner would be Trayvon.


Actually that first line should have read, "I am not talking about the law."

And "Yes", Bill...what Zimmerman was doing was "stalking" Martin.

And only a sick mind would thing that the only thing morally wrong that night was what Trayvon Martin did.
BillRM
 
  1  
Sat 7 Dec, 2013 07:56 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
U can trust ANYONE, but its not advisable.


Well it was surely was not advisable for Zimmerman to had done so as far as his ex-wife or soon to be ex-wife and the old girlfriend he turn to afterward.

Still it is human to look for and expect emotional support from such people after being a victim of a criminal attack and then a victim of wrongful prosecution.

Too have a wife giving national TV interviews design to cause you more harm and then an old girlfriend shopping around her story for $$$$$$$ must be painful to say the least.

0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Sat 7 Dec, 2013 08:32 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
And "Yes", Bill...what Zimmerman was doing was "stalking" Martin.


You can claim that it is stalking a hundred millions times but it was not stalking in any sense of the word.

But keep repeating that falsehood and someone might be convicted that you are right.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sat 7 Dec, 2013 08:36 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
And "Yes", Bill...what Zimmerman was doing was "stalking" Martin.


You can claim that it is stalking a hundred millions times but it was not stalking in any sense of the word.

But keep repeating that falsehood and someone might be convicted that you are right.


Oh, but it was. Even David acknowledges that.

But do continue with your fantasy, Bill.
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Sat 7 Dec, 2013 09:03 am
@Frank Apisa,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
And "Yes", Bill...what Zimmerman was doing was "stalking" Martin.


You can claim that it is stalking a hundred millions times but it was not stalking in any sense of the word.

But keep repeating that falsehood and someone might be convicted that you are right.


Frank Apisa wrote:
Oh, but it was. Even David acknowledges that.
OK, as long as we are defining stalking the same way, Frank,
as a wholesome, lawful activity.

When next we meet, u r welcome to stalk me, and in a spirit of conviviality,
I will neither shoot u, nor beat your head against anything.




David
BillRM
 
  2  
Sat 7 Dec, 2013 09:08 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/stalk

stalk verb
: to follow (an animal or person that you are hunting or trying to capture) by moving slowly and quietly

: to go through (a place or area) while hunting

: to follow, watch, and bother (someone) constantly in a way that is frightening, dangerous, etc.


Not one thing above apply to Zimmerman actions in following Trayvon for the legal purpose of guiding the police to Trayvon that night.

 

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A Thought About the Zimmerman Trial. - Question by Frank Apisa
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