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The State of Florida vs George Zimmerman: The Trial

 
 
firefly
 
  1  
Fri 29 Nov, 2013 04:00 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:

It is amazing, Firefly, that so many "defenders" of the 2nd Amendment are unwilling to see behavior of the sort Zimmerman is exhibiting as a reason to refuse him the right to own guns. They honestly do think a person has to massacre a bunch of people before that person should be considered unfit for gun ownership.

In BillRM's case, he's being an out and out hypocrite. In the past, after mass shootings, he's blamed the mental health system, and those close to the shooter, for not recognizing red flags beforehand, and for not getting the shooter help, and preventing access to guns, before these tragedies happened.

At the moment, Zimmerman is waving a lot more red flags than Adam Lanza did regarding a potential for a gun tragedy. Lanza was just a weird kid, with no history of aggressive behavior or violence, or history of run-ins with the law over guns, or threats of gun use. As far as we know, he didn't hang bullet-ridden targets on the walls of a home of someone he was angry at, as a "message" for them to find, or make gestures threatening possible gun use, and he was never arrested for pointing a gun at someone in a threatening manner.

Because Zimmerman was previously BillRM's poster boy for the need for concealed carry, Zimmerman's behavior, since his acquittal, has simply prompted more denial on BillRM's part, because he's chosen to paint himself into a corner of blind-eyed support of Zimmerman's right to have guns--regardless of how Zimmerman acts.
Quote:
In fact, Firefly...some of the defenders don't sound as though they have their heads screwed on tightly enough to own guns. Or at least, it sounds that way around here.

Wouldn't you say.

That thought has certainly crossed my mind...

Romeo Fabulini
 
  -1  
Fri 29 Nov, 2013 04:00 pm
I've seen plenty of Youtube and LiveLeak vids where people are walking down the street with assault rifles slung over their back, and when worried citizens call the police, the gunmen start being rude to the police, saying stuff like "open carry is not illegal so you have no right to question me".
Are they just psycho cop-baiters or what? They sure as hell get all gun owners a bad name.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Fri 29 Nov, 2013 04:03 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Yes, anyone who would dare to disagree with you and Firefly should have one of their constitutional rights taken away for that alone.


Nope...and neither of us has suggest such. We are saying that people who act disturbed...might need to be looked at carefully before allowing gun ownership.

Zimmerman, in my opinion, falls into that category.

You, in my opinion, do also.
0 Replies
 
Moment-in-Time
 
  1  
Fri 29 Nov, 2013 07:16 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Lanza was just a weird kid, with no history of aggressive behavior or violence, or history of run-ins with the law over guns, or threats of gun use.


Here is where I diverge from you regarding Adam Lanza ONLY. Lanza was afflicted with Asperger's Syndrome. "Asperger syndrome (AS), also known as Asperger disorder (AD) or simply Asperger's, is an autism spectrum disorder (ASD) that is characterized by significant difficulties in social interaction and nonverbal communication, alongside restricted and repetitive patterns of behavior and interests."

These people live in their own world. Even his mother didn't know he was a psycho killer who would go off the deep end and kill 26 people with her being the first victim. In my personal opinion, the more dangerous person is the introverted, brooding types. In Zimmerman's case, he has left a trail of erratic behavior and one is forewarned. In the loner Adam Lanza's case nobody anticipated what this miscreation would do for truly he was an anomaly.
BillRM
 
  1  
Fri 29 Nov, 2013 07:24 pm
@Moment-in-Time,
Quote:
In Zimmerman's case, he has left a trail of erratic behavior and one is forewarned.


You mean that he gave warnings that he might be willing to kill to defend his own life?
firefly
 
  1  
Fri 29 Nov, 2013 09:35 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
You mean that he gave warnings that he might be willing to kill to defend his own life?

By hanging a bullet-ridden target on the wall, for his estranged wife to find?

By making menacing gestures, to his father-in-law and estranged wife, indicating he might pull out a gun and use it--when he was carrying a concealed gun? And then destroying the evidence of such behavior, that his wife had recorded, by smashing and destroying her iphone?

By allegedly pointing a long-barrel shotgun at his girlfriend?

There were no threats to his life going on with those things...he's been using his guns, or intimating he might use them, to terrorize other people, and each instance is more alarming than the last.

In addition. he's allegedly made suicide gestures by putting his gun in his mouth in front of another person.

Have you even considered the possibility that these kinds of behaviors are a cry for help--even on an unconscious level--and that he wants to be stopped before he gets completely out of control, and that even he might not really trust himself with guns now?

You're too obsessed with guns to even consider the way Zimmerman's been acting.

When even a Chief of Police considers him a "ticking time bomb" and "Another Aurora or Sandy Hook waiting to happen," you can't blithly toss this stuff off as simply the claims of spurned women--and the Police Chief said those things before his latest incident and arrest, and before Zimmerman's current stockpile of weapons was made public.

This is you...as usual.

http://theoutloudblog.files.wordpress.com/2007/01/head-up-ass.jpg
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Fri 29 Nov, 2013 09:42 pm
"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."
- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)


The key word in that quote is "peaceable", so i'm sure none of us have a beef if the cops take guns away from people who are NOT peaceable.
If Zim is acting crazy it serves him right if his guns get confiscated

oralloy
 
  0  
Fri 29 Nov, 2013 10:20 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
Romeo Fabulini wrote:
If Zim is acting crazy it serves him right if his guns get confiscated

He isn't acting crazy.

And civil rights violations are never right.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Fri 29 Nov, 2013 10:20 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
Quote:
If Zim is acting crazy it serves him right if his guns get confiscated


Nice theory however so far no court had found he is acting crazy in any way or in any manner.

Seems that he could have far better judgment in picking women but that is another story.
firefly
 
  1  
Fri 29 Nov, 2013 10:31 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Seems that he could have far better judgment in picking women but that is another story.

You mean he should find women that enjoy, or tolerate, being abused by him, and threatened with his guns, and who keep their mouths shut about the way he acts, and not make frantic 911 calls to the police?

http://theoutloudblog.files.wordpress.com/2007/01/head-up-ass.jpg
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Fri 29 Nov, 2013 10:33 pm
Incidentally the cops confiscated my 3 guns about 20 years ago here in England!
Relax, they were only air guns (a BB air pistol, a .177 air pistol and a .22 air rifle)
The neighbourhood was in a state of fear because real gunshots were being regularly heard in the streets after dark and somebody falsely fingered me, so the cops turned up at my flat with a search warrant and seized my guns.
But they couldn't keep them or charge me because they were only air guns, so I soon got them back.
As for the real gunshots, it turned out some prankster was going around with a blank-firing handgun at night scaring gangs of youths and the cops never did find him or his gun..Wink
BillRM
 
  0  
Fri 29 Nov, 2013 11:30 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
Quote:
they were only air guns (a BB air pistol, a .177 air pistol and a .22 air rifle)


I am surprise that you got such deadly weapons back as even air guns on your little island are control and with a sharp limit on how many joules of energy they can deliver to a target.

You would think that the 22 at least would be over any such limit.

Sad as your gunsmiths used to be the best in the world and remaining samples of their works are still in high demand as example of this high level of art in nations that are not rule by little old women of both sexes.

footnote air rifles was once used as weapons of war on battlefields and was able to bring down large game animals also. They even out performed early gun powder weapons but their very high cost was their downfall.
firefly
 
  0  
Sat 30 Nov, 2013 12:47 am
@BillRM,
http://theoutloudblog.files.wordpress.com/2007/01/head-up-ass.jpg
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Sat 30 Nov, 2013 01:24 am
Quote:
BillRM said- footnote air rifles was once used as weapons of war on battlefields and was able to bring down large game animals also. They even out performed early gun powder weapons but their very high cost was their downfall.

Yes Lewis and Clark crossed America and back with an air rifle, it packed quite a wallop, but my reading is that they never caught on among armies because they had to be pumped up after a number of shots to get the air pressure back up, which took too much time in the middle of combat
BillRM
 
  1  
Sat 30 Nov, 2013 01:42 am
@Romeo Fabulini,
Quote:
number of shots to get the air pressure back up, which took too much time in the middle of combat


They could get far more shots off in a shorter time frame then the gun powder rifles of the time and did not give the shooter location away by having a large smoke cloud over you.

The also work in heavy rain where a gun powder weapons of the time would be useless.

The re-pump time, once the reservoir was empty was not according to my understanding the main problem with them but the very large cost of making such a complex weapon with the technology of the time.

I would not be surprise if the one air rifle with Lewis and Clark cost more then all the other rifles combine that they was carrying.
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Sat 30 Nov, 2013 01:47 am
Interesting article on air rifles here-
http://www.prepperforums.net/forum/rifles-sks-ar-ak-long-guns/4375-super-powerful-air-rifles-possible.html

Incidentally my standard BSA Meteor .22 air rifle could penetrate a couple of inches into a bar of soap, so it could probably easily do that into human flesh and wasn't a toy, although most people think they are.
For example a Territorial Army soldier was visiting me once and spotted my Meteor in the corner, so he picked it up, cocked it and fired it through the open window at a chap on the playing fields 100 yards away before i could stop him. Luckily he missed and i snatched it off him and called him every name under the sun for being so stupid!

firefly
 
  1  
Sat 30 Nov, 2013 01:59 am
@Romeo Fabulini,
Why don't you start a thread to discuss air rifles, or communicate with BillRM by PM about that topic.

This thread is about George Zimmerman.

In the stockpile of weapons found in Zimmerman's possession, not a single one was an air rifle...



0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  0  
Sat 30 Nov, 2013 02:06 am
Quote:
Zimmerman's not-guilty verdict comes with 'mind-numbing' $2.5M bill
By Rene Stutzman and Jeff Weiner, Orlando Sentinel
November 29, 2013

George Zimmerman was acquitted at his racially charged murder trial in July. He won but at a very steep cost.

Two months ago, he received a $2.5 million bill from his two lead attorneys, Mark O'Mara and Don West.

They had kept track of the time they worked on the case. Each billed him for about 3,000 hours, according to O'Mara.

In a high-profile but not very complicated murder case, the relationship between lawyer and client and money long ago grew complicated. Only now, though, is that issue out in the open.

O'Mara took on the case in April 2012, saying he would represent Zimmerman at no charge. Then he discovered that Zimmerman and his family were raising funds via a website and that money was pouring in, at least initially.

Throughout the case, even after the trial, O'Mara said he and West had not been paid a dime, although they hoped to be someday.

In an interview this week, O'Mara said Zimmerman paid them "a minute amount" after the trial.

O'Mara is still hopeful, he said, that there might someday be money he and West can collect.

In truth, they have already benefited financially from Zimmerman's legal-defense fund. Several months ago, O'Mara reported spending $52,550 on "law firm support and infrastructure."

O'Mara and his spokesman never provided a detailed accounting as to what that included, but they said it was such things as more computers, upgraded software, new phones and improved office security.

West and O'Mara also formed a private partnership, Timber Run Enterprises LLC, and bought the building next door to O'Mara's Concord Street office in downtown Orlando. That building, like O'Mara's office, is a former single-family home for which the lawyers paid $270,000.

It became the nerve center for the defense team, where O'Mara and West plus two other O'Mara law-firm employees and six law-school volunteers worked on the case.

O'Mara said he and West did not spend Zimmerman's defense-fund money to buy the building but that they leased it to O'Mara's firm, and defense-fund money was used to pay rent.

A Seminole County jury acquitted Zimmerman of second-degree murder July 13 for shooting 17-year-old Trayvon Martin in Sanford the year before. Zimmerman told police he shot Trayvon in self-defense after the unarmed Miami Gardens teenager attacked him.

The killing and acquittal prompted demonstrations across the country and beyond.

But Zimmerman had supporters, too. Contributors gave more than $400,000 to his legal-defense fund, money that went toward case expenses and supporting Zimmerman and his wife — not paying O'Mara and West for the hours they were working.

O'Mara charges $400 an hour, West $350 an hour, rates that area attorneys describe as reasonable, given their years of experience and skill.

But Orlando criminal-defense attorney Richard Hornsby said the $2.5 million Zimmerman total is "mind-numbing."

He and other Central Florida lawyers said criminal-defense attorneys typically charge clients a flat rate upfront and do not bill by the hour — a practice that, in this case, sent legal fees through the roof.

In other cases, if the client has some but not enough money, lawyers will collect a nonrefundable retainer — for example, $30,000 — then bill against that until it's been used up, according to Steven Laurence, an Altamonte Springs criminal-defense attorney. Once that's exhausted, they would charge by the hour, he said.

Rick Jancha, a Winter Park attorney, said that because Zimmerman had no money when he retained O'Mara and West, they had little choice but to bill by the hour if they ever hoped to be paid.

While they worked on Zimmerman's case, Jancha said, they also had little ability to earn a living.

"That's one of those cases that's all-consuming and pretty much destroys your practice while you're involved in it," he said.

Zimmerman had no money when the case began, and he has no money now. According to court paperwork, he is broke, unemployed, going through a divorce and facing new charges in an unrelated domestic-violence case in Seminole County.

In a financial affidavit he filled out last week, Zimmerman wrote that he owned no property, had no savings and possessed just $144.

O'Mara told CNN's Anderson Cooper last week that he hopes Zimmerman will get some money from a defamation suit he filed against NBCUniversal Media LLC. That case was put on hold in March, when both sides agreed to await the outcome of the murder trial.

There are no signs that it is moving forward again

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-legal-bills-20131129,0,7584756.story
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Sat 30 Nov, 2013 02:09 am
Quote:
Firefly said: @RF- Why don't you start a thread to discuss air rifles, or communicate with BillRM by PM about that topic

You've been cluttering up this thread with pictures of men's asses mate, can't you go to a gay forum if you like that sort of thing?..Wink
OmSigDAVID
 
  3  
Sat 30 Nov, 2013 05:05 am
@Frank Apisa,
firefly wrote:

The fact that you can think of other methods of causing mass killings is entirely beside the point.

It's also beside the point of whether guns should be in the possession of those who are mentally ill, and/or emotionally disturbed, particularly when these individuals have already shown evidence of impulsivity, and the irresponsible and inappropriate use of guns to threaten and intimidate others.

It seems to me that when mass shootings have occurred, you've blamed the mental health system, or those close to the shooter, for not recognizing these individuals beforehand.

In the case of Zimmerman, we do have a number of people complaining they are fearful of him, and that he has used guns, or threats of using them, to terrorize them, in situations not involving any self defense on his part, as well as a Chief of Police who has characterized him as a "ticking time bomb" and another "Aurora or Sandy Hook waiting to happen." And then a stockpile of weapons, which could certainly be used for a mass attack, are subsequently found in his possession...



Frank Apisa wrote:
It is amazing, Firefly, that so many "defenders" of the 2nd Amendment are unwilling to see behavior of the sort Zimmerman is exhibiting as a reason to refuse him the right to own guns. They honestly do think a person has to massacre a bunch of people before that person should be considered unfit for gun ownership.
It is NOT "amzing", in light of the fact
that discrimination is un-Constitutional and gun control
can only be accomplished by USURPATION of power
because government has no authority to interfere
in personal defensive armament, in contemplation
of equal protection of the laws, the same as it has
no jurisdiction to MAKE u go to Church, if u don t wanna go.
Got the idea???????



Frank Apisa wrote:
Oh well...that's part of the reason so much of the rest of the world consider us...
the United States...to be a country in chaos.
Screw them, Frank; thay don t count.





David
 

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