The State of Florida vs George Zimmerman: The Trial

It is amazing, Firefly, that so many "defenders" of the 2nd Amendment are unwilling to see behavior of the sort Zimmerman is exhibiting as a reason to refuse him the right to own guns. They honestly do think a person has to massacre a bunch of people before that person should be considered unfit for gun ownership.

In fact, Firefly...some of the defenders don't sound as though they have their heads screwed on tightly enough to own guns. Or at least, it sounds that way around here.

Wouldn't you say.

Yes, anyone who would dare to disagree with you and Firefly should have one of their constitutional rights taken away for that alone.

Lanza was just a weird kid, with no history of aggressive behavior or violence, or history of run-ins with the law over guns, or threats of gun use.

In Zimmerman's case, he has left a trail of erratic behavior and one is forewarned.

You mean that he gave warnings that he might be willing to kill to defend his own life?

If Zim is acting crazy it serves him right if his guns get confiscated

If Zim is acting crazy it serves him right if his guns get confiscated

Seems that he could have far better judgment in picking women but that is another story.

they were only air guns (a BB air pistol, a .177 air pistol and a .22 air rifle)

BillRM said- footnote air rifles was once used as weapons of war on battlefields and was able to bring down large game animals also. They even out performed early gun powder weapons but their very high cost was their downfall.

number of shots to get the air pressure back up, which took too much time in the middle of combat

Zimmerman's not-guilty verdict comes with 'mind-numbing' $2.5M bill
By Rene Stutzman and Jeff Weiner, Orlando Sentinel
November 29, 2013

George Zimmerman was acquitted at his racially charged murder trial in July. He won but at a very steep cost.

Two months ago, he received a $2.5 million bill from his two lead attorneys, Mark O'Mara and Don West.

They had kept track of the time they worked on the case. Each billed him for about 3,000 hours, according to O'Mara.

In a high-profile but not very complicated murder case, the relationship between lawyer and client and money long ago grew complicated. Only now, though, is that issue out in the open.

O'Mara took on the case in April 2012, saying he would represent Zimmerman at no charge. Then he discovered that Zimmerman and his family were raising funds via a website and that money was pouring in, at least initially.

Throughout the case, even after the trial, O'Mara said he and West had not been paid a dime, although they hoped to be someday.

In an interview this week, O'Mara said Zimmerman paid them "a minute amount" after the trial.

O'Mara is still hopeful, he said, that there might someday be money he and West can collect.

In truth, they have already benefited financially from Zimmerman's legal-defense fund. Several months ago, O'Mara reported spending $52,550 on "law firm support and infrastructure."

O'Mara and his spokesman never provided a detailed accounting as to what that included, but they said it was such things as more computers, upgraded software, new phones and improved office security.

West and O'Mara also formed a private partnership, Timber Run Enterprises LLC, and bought the building next door to O'Mara's Concord Street office in downtown Orlando. That building, like O'Mara's office, is a former single-family home for which the lawyers paid $270,000.

It became the nerve center for the defense team, where O'Mara and West plus two other O'Mara law-firm employees and six law-school volunteers worked on the case.

O'Mara said he and West did not spend Zimmerman's defense-fund money to buy the building but that they leased it to O'Mara's firm, and defense-fund money was used to pay rent.

A Seminole County jury acquitted Zimmerman of second-degree murder July 13 for shooting 17-year-old Trayvon Martin in Sanford the year before. Zimmerman told police he shot Trayvon in self-defense after the unarmed Miami Gardens teenager attacked him.

The killing and acquittal prompted demonstrations across the country and beyond.

But Zimmerman had supporters, too. Contributors gave more than $400,000 to his legal-defense fund, money that went toward case expenses and supporting Zimmerman and his wife — not paying O'Mara and West for the hours they were working.

O'Mara charges $400 an hour, West $350 an hour, rates that area attorneys describe as reasonable, given their years of experience and skill.

But Orlando criminal-defense attorney Richard Hornsby said the $2.5 million Zimmerman total is "mind-numbing."

He and other Central Florida lawyers said criminal-defense attorneys typically charge clients a flat rate upfront and do not bill by the hour — a practice that, in this case, sent legal fees through the roof.

In other cases, if the client has some but not enough money, lawyers will collect a nonrefundable retainer — for example, $30,000 — then bill against that until it's been used up, according to Steven Laurence, an Altamonte Springs criminal-defense attorney. Once that's exhausted, they would charge by the hour, he said.

Rick Jancha, a Winter Park attorney, said that because Zimmerman had no money when he retained O'Mara and West, they had little choice but to bill by the hour if they ever hoped to be paid.

While they worked on Zimmerman's case, Jancha said, they also had little ability to earn a living.

"That's one of those cases that's all-consuming and pretty much destroys your practice while you're involved in it," he said.

Zimmerman had no money when the case began, and he has no money now. According to court paperwork, he is broke, unemployed, going through a divorce and facing new charges in an unrelated domestic-violence case in Seminole County.

In a financial affidavit he filled out last week, Zimmerman wrote that he owned no property, had no savings and possessed just $144.

O'Mara told CNN's Anderson Cooper last week that he hopes Zimmerman will get some money from a defamation suit he filed against NBCUniversal Media LLC. That case was put on hold in March, when both sides agreed to await the outcome of the murder trial.

There are no signs that it is moving forward again

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-legal-bills-20131129,0,7584756.story

Firefly said: @RF- Why don't you start a thread to discuss air rifles, or communicate with BillRM by PM about that topic

The fact that you can think of other methods of causing mass killings is entirely beside the point.

It's also beside the point of whether guns should be in the possession of those who are mentally ill, and/or emotionally disturbed, particularly when these individuals have already shown evidence of impulsivity, and the irresponsible and inappropriate use of guns to threaten and intimidate others.

It seems to me that when mass shootings have occurred, you've blamed the mental health system, or those close to the shooter, for not recognizing these individuals beforehand.

In the case of Zimmerman, we do have a number of people complaining they are fearful of him, and that he has used guns, or threats of using them, to terrorize them, in situations not involving any self defense on his part, as well as a Chief of Police who has characterized him as a "ticking time bomb" and another "Aurora or Sandy Hook waiting to happen." And then a stockpile of weapons, which could certainly be used for a mass attack, are subsequently found in his possession...

It is amazing, Firefly, that so many "defenders" of the 2nd Amendment are unwilling to see behavior of the sort Zimmerman is exhibiting as a reason to refuse him the right to own guns. They honestly do think a person has to massacre a bunch of people before that person should be considered unfit for gun ownership.

Oh well...that's part of the reason so much of the rest of the world consider us...
the United States...to be a country in chaos.