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The State of Florida vs George Zimmerman: The Trial

 
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Thu 4 Jul, 2013 11:13 am
@gungasnake,
gungasnake wrote:

I can imagine myself being black easily enough. What I can't picture myself as is a total-loss cracked-out, purpled-out aspiring burglar with ideas about the world owing me anything.

Instead, you're a total-loss, delusional, racist nobody posting bullshit on the Internet.

0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Thu 4 Jul, 2013 11:15 am
@farmerman,
Not ALL... But something like 95% of them vote as a block for demokkKrats and as such share in the guilt (with libtards like yourself) for visiting a calamity on the nation.

Given that, I believe I do a better job than most whites/republicans/southerners do of working up any sort of sympathy for them.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 4 Jul, 2013 11:25 am
@gungasnake,
That a majority of minorities vote for democrats has historical good reasons for it. Study American politics and history. You might learn something.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Thu 4 Jul, 2013 11:26 am
@farmerman,


This the sort of thing you have in mind?

Author is Mike Carroll:

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/tboXimI82Cc/mqdefault.jpg

Mike actually grasps the real problems and he's trying to play a role similar to that of the OT prophets, who were never loved in their own times. He's telling his fellow blacks that this is how they look to the rest of the world, and that it isn't the rest of the world who has a problem. He's also claiming that something is fearfully wrong when media totally ignores the 10,000 blacks being killed by other blacks every year in demoKKKrat-controlled cities like Chicago, Detroit, and Atlanta, while making the ultimate federal case out of the one black kid ever to be shot by a white guy like George Zimmerman.

You might want to watch the video, you might learn something.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 4 Jul, 2013 11:31 am
@gungasnake,
There's very little chance that racial bigots can learn anything from cartoons, because their brains have already shut itself off from the "real" history of blacks in this country.
JTT
 
  1  
Thu 4 Jul, 2013 12:01 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
There's very little chance that racial bigots can learn anything from cartoons, because their brains have already shut itself off from the "real" history of blacks in this country.


Does that mean that you are unwilling to learn anything, CI?
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Thu 4 Jul, 2013 12:20 pm
@firefly,
we know that two men who did not know each other met, had some kind of a physical altercation, and that the one with out a gun ended up dead from a gunshot at very close range. this is not enough knowledge of anything under florida law to charge the survivor with anything after he made the claim of self defense.
JTT
 
  1  
Thu 4 Jul, 2013 12:23 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
we know that two men who did not know each other met, had some kind of a physical altercation, and that the one with out a gun ended up dead from a gunshot at very close range. this is not enough knowledge of anything under florida law to charge the survivor with anything after he made the claim of self defense.


Pretty bold claim for a restaurant owner, doncha think, Hawk?
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Thu 4 Jul, 2013 12:26 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Quote:
we know that two men who did not know each other met, had some kind of a physical altercation, and that the one with out a gun ended up dead from a gunshot at very close range. this is not enough knowledge of anything under florida law to charge the survivor with anything after he made the claim of self defense.


Pretty bold claim for a restaurant owner, doncha think, Hawk?

under that reasoning you cant say anything at all because we know nothing about you.

Oops!
firefly
 
  1  
Thu 4 Jul, 2013 12:37 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
we know that two men who did not know each other met...


No, they didn't just "meet"--one spotted, profiled, watched, and stalked, the other, before confronting him, and provoking an altercation with him, and killing him.

And, under Florida law, there was plenty to charge him with--including second degree murder or manslaughter, despite his flawed and questionable claims of self defense. And the state has put forth evidence to both back up their charges, and to raise doubts about his credibility.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 4 Jul, 2013 01:04 pm
@hawkeye10,
They just didn't "meet." One pursued the other as if the pursued person was a criminal. He had all the rights to be in that area without being questioned about the reasons why.

No civilian has the right to stop anyone from walking freely in this country.

JTT
 
  1  
Thu 4 Jul, 2013 01:08 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
under that reasoning you cant say anything at all because we know nothing about you.

Oops!


That might have a measure of validity if all I posted was just my opinion, Hawk. You know that isn't the case but you failed to think it thru, opting instead for a knee jerk jerk reaction.

Do you think you'll reply to me on this, proffering an apology?
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Thu 4 Jul, 2013 01:16 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Fla. Stat. ยง 784.048. Stalking; definitions; penalties. (2012)

(1) As used in this section, the term:

(a) "Harass" means to engage in a course of conduct directed at a specific person which causes substantial emotional distress to that person and serves no legitimate purpose.zimmerman was clearly perusing public safety, a very legit purpose

(b) "Course of conduct" means a pattern of conduct composed of a series of acts over a period of time, however short, which evidences a continuity of purpose. The term does not include constitutionally protected activity such as picketing or other organized protests.

(c) "Credible threat" means a verbal or nonverbal threat, or a combination of the two, including threats delivered by electronic communication or implied by a pattern of conduct, which places the person who is the target of the threat in reasonable fear for his or her safety or the safety of his or her family members or individuals closely associated with the person, and which is made with the apparent ability to carry out the threat to cause such harm. It is not necessary to prove that the person making the threat had the intent to actually carry out the threat. The present incarceration of the person making the threat is not a bar to prosecution under this section.

(d) "Cyberstalk" means to engage in a course of conduct to communicate, or to cause to be communicated, words, images, or language by or through the use of electronic mail or electronic communication, directed at a specific person, causing substantial emotional distress to that person and serving no legitimate purpose.

(2) A person who willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly follows, harasses, or cyberstalks another person commits the offense of stalking, a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

http://www.victimsofcrime.org/our-programs/stalking-resource-center/stalking-laws/criminal-stalking-laws-by-state/florida#48

Quote:
No, they didn't just "meet"--one spotted, profiled, watched, and stalked, the other, before confronting him,

no crime is contained in those acts

Quote:
provoking an altercation with him
two weeks into the trial the state has presented no evidence to this effect, which leads me to believe that none exists

Quote:
And, under Florida law, there was plenty to charge him with--including second degree murder or manslaughter, despite his flawed and questionable claims of self defense.

i have yet to see any legal expert not on the state payroll claim that the murder charge has a lick of justification, and most say that the manslaughter charge is a huge stretch.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Thu 4 Jul, 2013 01:17 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
They just didn't "meet." One pursued the other as if the pursued person was a criminal. He had all the rights to be in that area without being questioned about the reasons why


really? where does the law say that?

it does not.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 4 Jul, 2013 01:34 pm
@hawkeye10,
That's because you fail to understand the totality of the US Constitution.

Quote:
Freedom of movement under United States law
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Freedom of movement under United States law is governed primarily by the Privileges and Immunities Clause of the United States Constitution which states, "The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States." As far back as the circuit court ruling in Corfield v. Coryell, 6 Fed. Cas. 546 (1823), the Supreme Court recognized freedom of movement as a fundamental Constitutional right. In Paul v. Virginia, 75 U.S. 168 (1869), the Court defined freedom of movement as "right of free ingress into other States, and egress from them."[1] However, the Supreme Court did not invest the federal government with the authority to protect freedom of movement. Under the "privileges and immunities" clause, this authority was given to the states, a position the Court held consistently through the years in cases such as Ward v. Maryland, 79 U.S. 418 (1871), the Slaughter-House Cases, 83 U.S. 36 (1873) and United States v. Harris, 106 U.S. 629 (1883).[2][3]
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Thu 4 Jul, 2013 01:40 pm
@cicerone imposter,
so now you claim that someone coming up to you and asking why you are where you are is the act of kidnapping....congrats, you have graduated to the Firefly level of invention of your own personal definitions for words.

you cant prove that zimmerman prevented martin from taking even a single step anyways, so your theory is irrelevant.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 4 Jul, 2013 01:48 pm
@hawkeye10,
Don't be stupid!@ but I repeat myself.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Thu 4 Jul, 2013 02:01 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Don't be stupid!@ but I repeat myself.


says the person who does not seem to understand that rights dont exist unless the law says they do, and the law is followed.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  3  
Thu 4 Jul, 2013 02:18 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:

(a) "Harass" means to engage in a course of conduct directed at a specific person which causes substantial emotional distress to that person and serves no legitimate purpose.

zimmerman was clearly perusing public safety, a very legit purpose


Zimmerman wasn't "perusing public safety"--his obligation and responsibility as a neighborhood watch completely ended when he called the police. And the police didn't want any further help from him, When it became clear he was following Martin, the dispatcher told him, "We don't need you to do that." There was no urgency about the situation that prevented Zimmerman from staying in the car and waiting for the police.

Zimmerman's stalking and confronting Martin served no legitimate purpose. This was a wannabe cop, and vigilante, pursuing Martin for his own reasons which involved malice toward Martin, based on Zimmerman's profiling of him, and Zimmerman's personal obsession with not wanting this "punk" to get away..

And we know he caused Martin emotional distress, by his stalking, because Martin told that to Rachel Jeantel as it was happening. He was concerned about this "creepy" guy who was watching and following him. He wanted to get away from that man and avoid him.

And, when he finally confronted Martin, Zimmerman never even identified himself as part of a neighbor watch--so he did nothing to allay Martin's apprehensions about why he was watching and stalking him, or what he might do to him.

Zimmerman had no right to harass and frighten this kid by stalking and confronting him, and Martin had every right to defend himself from someone who was acting in a seemingly menacing way toward him. And the last thing that Jeantel heard Martin say was, "Get off me." suggesting that Zimmerman started the altercation.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Thu 4 Jul, 2013 02:23 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Zimmerman had no right to harass and frighten this kid by stalking and confronting him,

as a resident he had every right to confront any suspicious person in the area under the motive of public safety, whether the 911 operator wanted him to or not. she only spoke for herself, she is not authorized to speak for the police...something that zimmerman likely knew.

btw, the definition of "harass" is given in the law, and zimmerman did not do that. your personal definition has no standing, as always, but your use of this cheap trick again is noted.

ditto for "stalking"

show me in statute where zimmerman did not have the right to confront martin.
 

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