27
   

The State of Florida vs George Zimmerman: The Trial

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Sat 14 Sep, 2013 11:36 am
@firefly,
Quote:
It seems to me you've previously agreed with Corey that Zimmerman used excessive force against Martin, and that there was no need to shoot him in the heart.
yep, but florida law gave her no retort, and attempting to do it regardless was abuse. her top priority must be justice by the law, and it most certainly is not.
BillRM
 
  -1  
Sat 14 Sep, 2013 11:40 am
@RABEL222,
Quote:
But I am tired of the strawman arguments by the gun nuts. What they really mean when they claim Travon was a crook is he was black, but they dont have the balls to say so directly.


Strange as I do not remember large rallies by white racists shouting no justice no peace however I do remember black race baiters such as Sharpton and Jackson doing so.

I do not remember the KKK or the skin heads threatening Trayvon family or lawyers or the prosecutors with deaths let alone the jury.

However all that seems to come from the Trayvon was an innocent kid side with special note of people issuing death threats to even the children of the women jurors.

Seem the race issue was all in the minds and the hearts of the Trayvon was a poor innocent child killed by a racist white man with a gun side of the issue.

Zimmerman is hardly white with a very mixed family tree including blacks members but that was all ignore in the picture that was being painted over this event.
firefly
 
  2  
Sat 14 Sep, 2013 11:51 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
yep, but florida law gave her no retort, and attempting to do it regardless was abuse...

Florida's extremely flawed self-defense laws make it difficult to get convictions in cases like Zimmerman's, particularly where there are no other living witnesses to what occurred, but that does not mean prosecutors should shrink from prosecuting such cases when they believe laws have been violated.
There is nothing "abusive" about such a prosecution--the state did have evidence to support their contentions regarding George Zimmerman.

Immediately following the trial, 3 of the 6 jurors believed Zimmerman was guilty of either manslaughter or second degree murder on the first vote they took. That alone indicates there was nothing frivolous or "abusive" or insubstantial about this prosecution.

It would be a mockery of the criminal justice system if the state balked at trying all difficult cases.

And, since you do feel that Zimmerman used excessive lethal force against Martin, and that resulted in a questionable death, you should really be applauding their effort to try to hold him accountable, rather than, illogically, accusing them of being "abusive" for taking on a difficult prosecution.

firefly
 
  3  
Sat 14 Sep, 2013 11:56 am
@BillRM,
You do realize that RABEL222 is talking about you, and your attitudes, and not about any of the things, or other people, you are trying to use as diversions, don't you?

Or are you too dense and dumb to realize that?

It's about you, BillRM. And what people think of you.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Sat 14 Sep, 2013 12:06 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Immediately following the trial, 3 of the 6 jurors believed Zimmerman was guilty of either manslaughter or second degree murder on the first vote they took
not shocking considering that the state based its case on emotional appeal and not evidence. after deliberation, that is examination of the evidence and the law, 0 jurors thought that the law and evidence supported a guilty verdict, though some of the wished dearly to be able to find zimmerman guilty of something.

the state goes for emotional manipulation all the time, for instance Obama showed congressmen videos of still alive sarin poisoned Syrians dying saying "see, we must slug Assad!"....but some of the more thoughtful among them responded "but sir, you have shown no evidence that Assad did this". The horror of seeing this kind of death was supposed to swamp reason, because the state so often gets away with this kind of trickery. Not against zimmerman did it work, pics of a dead black boy and unproven theories of zimmermans motive was not according to the law proof of guilt of a crime, and this jury decided to follow the law rather than the wishes of the state to abuse a fellow citizen.
firefly
 
  2  
Sat 14 Sep, 2013 12:49 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
not shocking considering that the state based its case on emotional appeal and not evidence....

Unlike you, I actually watched the trial. The state's case was based on objective evidence, including the lack of evidence to support Zimmerman's often contradictatory version of events--including the lack of evidence to support his claims of why it was necessary for him to shoot Martin in the heart.

If anything, it was the defense case that was largely based on emotional appeal.
Quote:
after deliberation, that is examination of the evidence and the law, 0 jurors thought that the law and evidence supported a guilty verdict...

It's not true that after deliberating that "0 jurors thought that the law and evidence supported a guilty verdict"--it was simply that, given Florida's vague self-defense laws, they had to give Zimmerman the benefit of any doubt about whether he acted in self-defense, or he thought he was acting in self-defense. And the juror who later said, "George Zimmerman got away with murder," clearly did not feel there was a lack of evidence to point to his guilt.
Quote:
though some of the wished dearly to be able to find zimmerman guilty of something...

Because they did feel he had done something wrong--particularly in following Martin, and instigating and provoking a confrontation. They did not feel Zimmerman was blameless, they simply felt that, given Florida's laws, they were obligated to acquit him. And, both jurors who have spoken out, made that clear.

Florida's self-defense laws, and the instructions given to the Zimmerman jury, reflect laws that were promoted and supported by the NRA, and they are written in a way to provide maximum legal cover and protection for shooters. That's what makes the task difficult for prosecutors--and for jurors--to obtain convictions. The flawed nature of these laws allows for the miscarriage of justice, which is what we may have witnessed with Zimmerman's acquittal.

But the state cannot shrink from prosecuting those they feel have violated the law--and the questions about the legality of Zimmerman's actions started the night of the shooting. While this was a difficult prosecution for the state, because of the legal hurdles they faced and would have to overcome, there is nothing to suggest that this prosecution was "abusive" or unfounded--they had considerable evidence to support their case.

And the main motive the state presented was that Zimmerman shot Martin, not because he had to, but because he wanted to. They contended he unjustifiably used excessive lethal force.

And, since you apparently agree with the state on that score, your terming this prosecution "abusive" makes very little sense.

The next step is to revise and change those flawed and vague self-defense laws.

And Trayvon Martin's mother wil be testifying on that matter next week in the Senate.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/13/sybrina-fulton-trayvon-martin-stand-your-ground_n_3920820.html
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Sat 14 Sep, 2013 01:07 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
I think you are more a danger to, and blight on, humanity than either of the two you are unable to muster compassion for.


Two?

You mean I am more of a danger to society then the two young men who beaten to death an 88 years old world war 2 vet in a parking lot as he waited for his wife?

That is some statement indeed.


Yup...I think you are.

The two young man beat one man to death. Your ideas...the ideas you share with others of your ilk...can cause the deaths of many, many more.

So...yeah, I do consider you to be a greater danger to, and blight on, humanity than they.
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Sat 14 Sep, 2013 01:35 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
. Your ideas...the ideas you share with others of your ilk...can cause the deaths of many, many more.

So...yeah, I do consider you to be a greater danger to, and blight on, humanity than they.
that is the rationalization for the state getting into the business of policing thoughts....we know from history where that particular train goes, and I can say with some certainty you will not be pleased with how this trip turns out.
BillRM
 
  0  
Sat 14 Sep, 2013 01:55 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
The two young man beat one man to death. Your ideas...the ideas you share with others of your ilk...can cause the deaths of many, many more.


You mean the idea that if someone or someones put your life at risk by attacking you that you have a right of self defense and without regards to the skin color or the age of the parties involves?

Of course, in a strange manner you are right in some cases that the death total might be higher as for example if the old man had been armed as Zimmerman had been armed then instead of a dead vet we might had have two more dead black "children" instead.

My bet is that you and people like you would be crying for the blood of the old man for killing these poor "children".

Our president would be IDing with these young hoodlums and Sharpton and Jackson would be leading rallies of no justice no peace.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -1  
Sat 14 Sep, 2013 02:26 pm
The one things I find the most shocking is that the mixed race president that both Zimmerman and I voted for is in fact a black racist of the same stripe as Sharpton and Jackson.

IDing with a young hoodlum base on the race of that hoodlum instead of the solid citizen, also mixed race, that was attacked by that hoodlum.

That along with that while he was once a constitutional law professor he is supporting the intelligence community tearing up the bill of rights.

Obama is turning out to be a large disappointment as our first "black" president.
roger
 
  3  
Sat 14 Sep, 2013 03:02 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Oh over 14,000 dollars, as in one person giving over 14,000 dollars, as I question if any one person wrote him a check for over 14,000 dollars.



Maybe you should have mentioned that gift taxes are paid by the giver. No tax to the receiver.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Sat 14 Sep, 2013 03:28 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
. Your ideas...the ideas you share with others of your ilk...can cause the deaths of many, many more.

So...yeah, I do consider you to be a greater danger to, and blight on, humanity than they.
that is the rationalization for the state getting into the business of policing thoughts....we know from history where that particular train goes, and I can say with some certainty you will not be pleased with how this trip turns out.


Not sure what you are talking about here, Hawk. I am talking about my personal feelings. What does that have to do with the state of Florida or the "train" it is on?
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Sat 14 Sep, 2013 03:33 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Not sure what you are talking about here, Hawk.
you fucked up scary people who demonize ideas, reasonable rational people demonize actions only.
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Sat 14 Sep, 2013 03:59 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
Quote:
I have no compassion for people like these who would libel a 17 year old murdered kid


A 17 year old hoodlum willing to attacked a stranger in the manner Trayvon attacked Zimmernam is not a kid anymore then I am willing to apply that label to the younger of the two DC snipers, or the two young hoodlums one even younger then Trayvon who had just beaten to death the 88 years old world war two vet.

Sorry no compassion for killers or in the case of Trayvon a would be killer.

All my compassion go to the victims of these so call kids including Zimmerman
.
SO STIPULATED!





David
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Sat 14 Sep, 2013 04:31 pm
@BillRM,
You are so off-the-rails it's priceless.

http://www.billtalsma.com/assets/images/gifs-from-mom/laughingMouse.gif

Your racist thinking is so blatant, and absurd, it's like a parody.

I disagree with Frank on one thing--you're too dumb to be dangerous. Laughing

But, your reputation at A2K is forever insured...
http://www.mobileapples.com/Assets/Content/Wallpapers/Village_Idiot.jpg





firefly
 
  0  
Sat 14 Sep, 2013 04:57 pm
Quote:
Is George Zimmerman victim of circumstance, or are his troubles his own doing?
September 14, 2013
Associated Press

LAKE MARY, Fla. – Whether they think that he got away with murdering 17-year-old Trayvon Martin or that he was just a brave neighborhood watch volunteer "standing his ground," many Americans can't seem to get enough of George Zimmerman. And he can't seem to stop giving it to them.

So it's hardly surprising that everything Zimmerman does produces a Twitterverse explosion and spins out into heavy news coverage. Comedian Deon Cole nailed it during an appearance on "Late Night with Conan O'Brien" a couple of days after the July 13 verdict. Merely being found not guilty, he said of Zimmerman, "doesn't mean that you're a free man."

He certainly hasn't been free from the spotlight.

— Two stops for speeding.

— A cellphone photo of a smiling Zimmerman touring the Florida factory where the 9 mm semi-automatic pistol used in the February 2012 shooting was made.

— And, this week, police dash-cam footage of Zimmerman kneeling in the street to be cuffed after an alleged scuffle with his estranged wife and father-in-law.

Like gangster Al Capone going to Alcatraz for tax evasion and O.J. Simpson serving time for robbing some sports memorabilia dealers, some interpret this series of unfortunate events as part of some cosmic comeuppance for a wannabe cop.

But is he a kind of George Ziggy-man, perpetually stalked by storm clouds, or more like one of those California wildfires, creating his own weather patterns?

Seems like a little bit of both, according to crisis management expert Mark McClennan.

"How does he keep resetting his 15 minutes of fame?" said the Boston-area consultant, who's on the Public Relations Society of America's board of directors. "I'd say it's a two-way street."

Granted, Zimmerman didn't expect his visit to the Kel-Tec CNC Industries factory in Cocoa, Fla., to be a public event. But McClennan wasn't surprised when TMZ published a photo of Zimmerman shaking hands with a Kel-Tec employee — and Zimmerman shouldn't have been, either.

"Instead of being a 24-hour news cycle, it's now a 24-second news cycle for anything to spring up," said McClennan, a senior vice president at Schwartz MSL. "You need to be careful of what you're doing. ... And if there's anything you do that is newsworthy or interesting, people are going to write about it, talk about it, share about it, tweet it, put it on YouTube — because it's going to drive clicks, drive interest, and it's going to spread virally."

Referring to the factory visit, Shawn Vincent, a spokesman for the law firm that defended Zimmerman, told Yahoo News: "That was not part of our public relations plan."

It's not just his public outings and repeated brushes with the legal system that have kept Zimmerman in the spotlight. Martin's parents were prominent participants in last month's 50th anniversary commemoration of the March on Washington, and several civil rights leaders have called for the repeal of "stand-your-ground" laws, which generally remove a person's duty to retreat if possible in the face of danger.

Even when he helped extricate a family from an overturned SUV in July, Zimmerman couldn't catch a break.

The grateful couple canceled a news conference, defense attorney Mark O'Mara said, "for the possibility of blowback against them." People immediately suggested the incident was staged — or at least poked fun at the timing.

"Let's get this straight," Nigel Stevens wrote on the site www.opposingviews.com. "Zimmerman, in his only documented venture into the real world, heroically transforms into Volunteer Paramedic and rescues someone from deadly circumstances. Is this really happening? Aaron Sorkin and Steven Spielberg couldn't have collaborated to come up with that ending. "

Stevens — after dubbing Zimmerman "the most vilified man in America" — went on to suggest the next acts on the watchman's "Karmic Redemption Tour": Providing emergency childbirth assistance to Duchess of Cambridge Kate Middleton, balancing Detroit's budget and capturing NSA leaker Edward Snowden.

Zimmerman certainly has his supporters. Several groups launched petition drives urging the Department of Justice not to pursue federal civil rights charges against him.

"The jury has spoken and found that the prosecution failed to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that George Zimmerman had malice or racism in his heart or even a reckless disregard for Trayvon Martin's life when he shot the teenager," declared a petition on dickmorris.rallycongress.com. "The Justice Department should now butt out."

But the trial seems to have set in motion some forces that are beyond Zimmerman's control.

In late August, Shellie Zimmerman pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor perjury charge for lying during a bail hearing after her husband's arrest. Last week, she filed for divorce, and felt compelled to tell the world about it. On ABC's "Good Morning America," she called her husband "selfish" and accused him of leaving her with "a bunch of pieces of broken glass" after the acquittal.

Zimmerman blames the trial for the implosion of his marriage. His wife's attorney, Kelly Sims, said the couple have been on a "Tower of Terror" — an apparent reference to the harrowing, "Twilight Zone"-themed ride at nearby Walt Disney World — since the shooting and had spent only a few days together before the divorce filing.

But was it wise for Zimmerman to go to the home Monday and take photos while his wife and her family were there gathering belongings?

O'Mara said Zimmerman needs to be a lot more "circumspect" about what he does, since every action is "hyper-focused on and scrutinized."

"I understand they're not private individuals anymore — never by their own doing," said O'Mara, who continues to handle Zimmerman's defamation lawsuit against NBC but does not intend to represent him if any charges result from this investigation. "Now, with everything that has happened in the past year and a half, it would be very nice if we could let them separate and divorce as they need to in two separate paths because they've decided they can't live together."

Zimmerman may be his own worst enemy. Defense attorney Barry Scheck notes that trouble often simply begets more trouble.

"The pressure from the situation often adds an additional distortion to their behavior," said Scheck, a co-director of the Innocence Project, and part of the "dream team" that helped win Simpson's acquittal on charges of killing his ex-wife and a friend. "So it's a very difficult situation, and I think the people that have been most successful with it are the ones that have a clear sense of what they're about and just stick to it."

McClennan insists that no reputation — not even Zimmerman's — is "irreparably beyond repair."

"In crisis management ... once you resolve the fundamental issues, you go into purgatory for a while, where you start building it again and you start making the positives," he said. "But any one misstep can bring it right back to the beginning again, and you've got to start building all over again."

Purgatory, at least in Catholic theology, suggests a temporary expiation on the way to a state of grace. Dr. Patrick Williams, a clinical psychologist and founder of the Institute for Life Coach Training, isn't so sure Zimmerman is heading in that direction.

Watching Zimmerman leading up to the trial, Williams said he saw "somebody who thought he did the community a favor, you know. Like he was some hero."

Williams said Zimmerman could certainly use some guidance, but the doctor doesn't see him "as a coachable person" as long as he keeps repeating the same old patterns.

"You know, the biggest predictor of your future is your past," he said. "If he doesn't get charged on this case, there'll be something else. I think people kind of create their reality. And I'm not sure he's learned to make good choices."

Martin's parents have declined to weigh in on Zimmerman's continuing legal troubles and what it all means. But their attorney, Benjamin Crump, noted that they "have always leaned on their faith through this whole ordeal.

"And they've always said that the killer of their unarmed child would have to answer to a higher authority."

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/09/14/is-george-zimmerman-victim-circumstance-or-are-his-troubles-his-own-doing/print#ixzz2euW0kdPT
0 Replies
 
Moment-in-Time
 
  0  
Sat 14 Sep, 2013 05:28 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:

My my you are a tax law expert.................???????


Never a tax expert; however, one of my myriad jobs working my way through college was preparing tax returns for others.....I worked part time for the City of New York.

Quote:
Oh over 14,000 dollars, as in one person giving over 14,000 dollars, as I question if any one person wrote him a check for over 14,000 dollars.


The sum of the money gift you contributed to Zimmerman is insignificant; it's the entire amount from everyone that came to over $175,000 in one account (I heard he once had two set up) that taxes must be paid on. Trust me, he will have to pay the IRS on this mass sum or go to jail....the IRS do not play. Have you ever heard this expression there is nothing certain in life except "Death and Taxes"?!

Quote:
In any case, I been thinking that we should start a fund to paid for a world wide tour for the man so he could get away from all the pressure he is now under and that fund could also help pay any taxes that might be owing also.


Ah, I see a sneaky petty streak emerging. Are you a member of the KKK?!?!
BillRM
 
  0  
Sat 14 Sep, 2013 05:43 pm
@Moment-in-Time,
Quote:
Ah, I see a sneaky petty streak emerging. Are you a member of the KKK?!?!


Far far far worst then the KKK, the ACLU and the EFF and a former member of NOW when the ERA was up for ratification many decades ago.

I hardly can live down the shame of being associated with those organizations and I did voted for a person that turn out to be a racist for president along with not respecting the bill of rights IE Obama.
0 Replies
 
Moment-in-Time
 
  2  
Sat 14 Sep, 2013 06:02 pm
@firefly,
Quote:

I disagree with Frank on one thing--you're too dumb to be dangerous.


Bingo! We have given Billrm more time and space than one such as he deserves.
BillRM
 
  0  
Sat 14 Sep, 2013 06:49 pm
@Moment-in-Time,
Quote:
Bingo! We have given Billrm more time and space than one such as he deserves


Well you being so very bright I assume you know how to used the system ignore function.

Found my blood pressure had drop at least 20 points after blocking Firefly direct postings.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.06 seconds on 07/13/2025 at 08:26:18