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The State of Florida vs George Zimmerman: The Trial

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 9 Sep, 2013 09:41 am
@parados,
Billy wrote,
Quote:
there was no evidence that I saw that would indicate that he did not act in self defense


He also didn't see any evidence that would indicate that Trayvon did not act in self-defense. Especially after Zimmerman's taking a drug that can result in aggression.

Added to that, the drug Zimmerman took also results in dizziness; that's evidence of the drug - even though the prosecution failed to show it during the trial. He could have fallen by himself and injured his head.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Mon 9 Sep, 2013 09:47 am
@parados,
parados wrote:
I guess if we assume Bill had said you were unlikely to wear a read [sic] hat
then you can argue whatever you want.
That assumption is un-necessary to the point at issue.
U have tacitly adopted the (questionable) argument that people DO
what thay are ABLE to do.

By that reasoning, I CAN fly to Timbuktu,
and therefore (according to U) I am on my way!
Mr. Parados implies that: in 2012, if I was able to vote for obama,
then he got my vote.
I remain skeptical of your implicit logic.







parados wrote:
I never said anyone would wear a read [sic] hat because they can.
In your post, u tacitly implied that
people WILL do what thay are ABLE to do.





parados wrote:
Math shows that a many MUST retake the test and pass.
Your assertion is FALSE and conspicuously illogical.
It is very possible that no one will elect to re-take the test.







parados wrote:
Perhaps you can figure it out.
I figure that your reasoning does NOT make sense.
I refuse to accept the concept that people MUST do
what thay CAN do; for that reason, I neither wear red hats,
nor am I going to Timbuktu, nor am I voting Democrat, tho I CAN.

Get the point??






parados wrote:
Are you willing to argue that no one retakes the test
My position on that is agnostic.
I lack sufficient information to know whether anyone will take the re-test.




parados wrote:
or no one that retakes the test passes?
I bet you will try to argue that because you CAN!
U lose the bet, Mr. Parados.





David
firefly
 
  0  
Mon 9 Sep, 2013 10:06 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Especially after Zimmerman's taking a drug that can result in aggression

The failure to do any toxicology testing on Zimmerman after the shooting is one indication of how badly this homicide was handled from the outset.

Who knows how much other evidence in this case was lost?

And the fact that Zimmerman's wife had walked out on him the day before the shooting may have been very relevant to Zimmerman's emotional state and frame of mind when he saw Trayvon Martin that night.

Zimmerrman's personal life was not in good shape. He was on his way to do grocery shopping that night when he spotted Trayvon Martin--he said on Sunday nights he and his wife would go shopping and then cook for the week. But Zimmerman didn't have a wife at home, or with him, that night, and that may well have affected his mood when he saw Trayvon. He may have felt the need to get control over something, to feel empowered, and when he spotted Martin, he tried to dominate the situation by following him--he wasn't going to let this "f--king punk" get away. He couldn't keep his wife from getting away, so Martin, unfortunately, triggered all of Zimmerman's obsessions and his personal needs to control.

Had the police known that Zimmerman's wife had just walked out on him, the day before the shooting, that also would have given them additional evidence about his emotional state and mind-set. But they didn't know that.

If a civil wrongful death trial takes place, I think they'll have much more information about Zimmerman to work with. I think his wife will be considerably less inclined to protect him, and I think she'll offer a much clearer picture of what this man is like, including his emotional control, or lack of it, and his volatility and impulsivity.

And, of course, in a civil trial, Zimmerman would have to take the stand and try to explain away all the inconsistencies and contradictions in his account of what happened, and that may not be easy for him to do. It may not be easy for him to explain why he just couldn't remain in his car either--the explanation he was looking for an address is pure bullshit. And he never identified himself to Martin. I don't think he could hold up under a vigorous cross-examination. He clearly created the conditions for a needless and avoidable death by his actions. Whether he truly felt threatened when he fired his gun is apart from the fact he created and provoked the entire situation that made that necessary--his actions, the totality of his actions, were responsible in bringing about a wrongful death.

The reckless behavior Zimmerman has shown since his acquittal, the two stops for speeding, the visiting a gun factory and posing for pictures, are the real clues to what this man is like. His judgment is bad...
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Mon 9 Sep, 2013 10:31 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
That assumption is un-necessary to the point at issue.
U have tacitly adopted the (questionable) argument that people DO
what thay are ABLE to do.

hmm...
I wonder how you explain how 75% of people graduate having passed a test when 50% of the people taking the test at one time fail it.
Unless at least half of the people that fail it retake it and pass there is no way the 75% number is possible. I never claimed they would retake the test, the numbers show they DO retake the test.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Mon 9 Sep, 2013 12:05 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
No way, David. You were saying that Zimmerman described what happened.
I noted that he could be lying.
I represent the position that it is not smart
to beat someone 's head on the street, regardless of whether anyone tells lies.


Yes, David, but let's not get cute with the comment. You were using the comment to indicate that Trayvon was NOT SMART...and were giving an example of him acting in a NOT SMART way.

I acknowledged that beating someone's head on street would not be smart...but that we do not truly know if Trayvon actually did that.

Quote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
You really want to limit what can be used in rebuttal...
Ideally, it shud be relevant.





David


Oh, it is relevant, David...and I suspect that is why you are dealing with it the way you are.
0 Replies
 
Moment-in-Time
 
  1  
Mon 9 Sep, 2013 01:00 pm
@firefly,
George Zimmerman in police custody again! Some kind of domestic altercation. This just came via an alert.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Mon 9 Sep, 2013 01:16 pm
@Moment-in-Time,
How can that be? George Zimmerman is an outstanding citizen of this country according to many on this thread. Mr. Green Drunk Drunk Drunk
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Mon 9 Sep, 2013 01:32 pm
@Moment-in-Time,
Quote:
George Zimmerman in police custody again! Some kind of domestic altercation. This just came via an alert.

I've been saying it's just a matter of time...

His wife called 911.

Quote:
Police in a central Florida town say they are investigating an incident involving George Zimmerman after his estranged wife reported that he was threatening her and her father with a gun.

Shellie Zimmerman filed for divorce last week.

CNN quotes police as saying that Zimmerman is in "investigative custody." Lake Mary Police Chief Steve Bracknell told the Associated Press that Shellie Zimmerman called police shortly after 2 p.m. on Monday. Bracknell says Zimmerman hasn't been arrested and officers are at the house trying to determine what happened.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/
firefly
 
  0  
Mon 9 Sep, 2013 01:41 pm
Quote:
George Zimmerman detained, police investigate 'possible domestic battery'
George Zimmerman not yet under arrest, cops say
By Jeff Weiner, Orlando Sentinel
3:25 p.m. EDT, September 9, 2013

George Zimmerman, the former Neighborhood Watch volunteer acquitted of murder in the shooting of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, has been detained as authorities investigate a domestic incident in Lake Mary, police confirmed.

Police are investigating a “possible domestic battery” involving Zimmerman on Sprucewood Road, Lake Mary police Officer Zach Hudson said this afternoon.

According to Lake Mary police Chief Steve Bracknell, Zimmerman’s wife Shellie Zimmerman called police and said that her husband had made threats to her family “with his hand on his gun.”

She also alleged that George Zimmerman had battered her father, David Dean, Bracknell said.

The police chief said about 3:30 p.m. Shellie Zimmerman and her father were consulting with their attorney to decide whether to give a sworn statement or press charges.

Hudson said the investigation is in its early stages, and it was unclear whether Zimmerman or anyone would be arrested. No significant injuries were suffered in the incident, Hudson said.

A gray Honda Ridgeline, similar to one driven by Zimmerman when he was ticketed last week in Lake Mary was parked out front if the house, the same one where the couple had lived in hiding between September and at least the end of Zimmerman's trial July 13.

Zimmerman had successfully kept his hideout a secret for a year, but on Monday that fell apart when his estranged wife called police.

Three news helicopters hovered overhead at 3:30p.m. and TV news trucks lined what had been a very quiet residential street near Seminole State College.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-in-custody-gun-20130909,0,4880482.story
boomerang
 
  5  
Mon 9 Sep, 2013 01:46 pm
@firefly,
Well I heard that she'd been suspended from school, failed her tests, and had the makings for some deranged drugs so I'm sure she deserved being threatened with a gun.
firefly
 
  2  
Mon 9 Sep, 2013 01:49 pm
@boomerang,
I'll bet she was in possession of stolen jewelry as well.

I'm sure that Zimmerman had his hand on his gun when he approached Trayvon Martin too. .
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 9 Sep, 2013 02:01 pm
@firefly,
The more interesting aspect of the story is that Zimmerman beat up on Shellies old dad.

He must've had a soda pop in his hand.
0 Replies
 
Moment-in-Time
 
  1  
Mon 9 Sep, 2013 03:06 pm
@firefly,
Quote:

I've been saying it's just a matter of time...


Now you and I both know Zimmerman didn't do anything wrong. His father-in-law must be drunk and should know better since he's so much older than that very nice chap, George; why the police should have locked the father-in-law up. T'is a shame the way the public keep picking on poor George Zimmerman. Everyone is aware the very nice man, George, is a pillow of strength to his neighborhood, and a super model for the high upstanding American citizen. He could not help it if the "drug addict, hoodie-wearing, minority" up and got himself killed. Why Trayvon should never have been in that neighborhood, anyhow....everybody knows this....Trayvon even LIED and said his father's girlfriend lived there. Didn't the dope smoking African American realize he was being watched? Tsk Tsk Tsk! I swear, I simply do not know what this world is coming to!!!!!
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  0  
Mon 9 Sep, 2013 03:41 pm
One news report is that his wife is not planning on pressing charges. If true, I think that would be a mistake on her part, if Zimmerman really did hit her father and threaten them.
Quote:
George Zimmerman's wife tells cops he punched her dad, had gun
By Matt Pearce
September 9, 2013

In a call to 911, George Zimmerman's wife can be heard telling police Monday that Zimmerman was sitting in a car outside her home with "his hand on his gun and saying, 'Step closer.' "

"Dad, get inside the house! George might start shooting at us, I don’t know," Shellie Zimmerman can be heard telling her father, according to a 911 recording released as police swarmed the Zimmerman home in Lake Mary, Fla., to investigate.

As of a couple of hours after the 911 call, Zimmerman was not under arrest but was in "investigative custody," which means he can't leave the scene until police are done investigating, Lake Mary Police Chief Steve Bracknell said in a phone interview with the Los Angeles Times. Bracknell said Zimmerman was being cooperative.

Later, Bracknell told the Orlando Sentinel that Shellie Zimmerman and her father had decided not to press charges. "We have no victim, no crime,” he said.

On the 911 recording, Shellie Zimmerman sounded stressed, saying her husband had attacked her father and may have broken his nose.

"He’s just threatening all of us with his firearm, and he’s gonna shoot us," she said on the call. "He punched my dad in the nose, my dad has a mark on his face, I saw his glasses on the floor. He accosted my father, and took my iPad out of my hand, and smashed it and cut it with a pocket knife."

She added, “He just showed up here.... I’m really, really afraid.... I don’t know what he’s capable of, I’m really scared.”

Shellie Zimmerman filed for divorce last week. She was convicted of perjury for lying to a judge about their finances during the prosecution of her husband in the 2012 shooting death of unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin. George Zimmerman was acquitted this summer in the slaying.

She called 911 about 2:10 p.m. Monday to say that her husband was in her home, with his hand on a gun, threatening all of the family, Bracknell said.

“Keep in mind, this is only her side of the story," Bracknell said.

After police responded, Shellie Zimmerman and her father weren't giving statements to the police until their attorney arrived, Bracknell said.

Shellie Zimmerman's attorney, Kelly Sims, did not immediately respond to request for comment.

Sims told ABC News that George Zimmerman pulled a knife on his wife Monday after she found a firearm in the house they had shared. He then pulled a gun on her and her father after a verbal altercation, Sims told ABC News.

“Oh my God. Oh my God!” Shellie Zimmerman says to herself on the 911 recording as police arrive and a dispatcher urges her and her father to stay inside the home.

“Shellie, you’re doing really good, OK? This is a tough situation for anyone," the dispatcher says.

Shellie Zimmerman can be heard weeping quietly.

After news of the incident broke, George Zimmerman's brother, Robert Zimmerman, tweeted, "We've learned from [Trayvon Martin] case not to 'jump to conclusions,' to wait for facts, & to avoid speculation. 'News' is a business - not your friend."

According to a copy of the divorce petition obtained by the Associated Press, Shellie Zimmerman wanted her husband to pay for a permanent life insurance policy with her as beneficiary.

George Zimmerman has had trouble staying out of the news lately, twice getting pulled over for speeding after his acquittal. One of those times, he was armed. In another incident, he visited the manufacturer that made the gun he used in the slaying of Martin. Zimmerman said he was acting in self-defense; his acquittal by a six-person Florida jury sparked nationwide protests.

The news of Zimmerman's detention Monday went viral and caused a stir at the Lake Mary Police Department, which serves a town of 14,574 people. The police have been deluged with phone calls from the media asking about the incident.

“Man, it would be fantastic if you have an apartment out there [in Los Angeles] for George Zimmerman," Bracknell, the police chief, told The Times. “This guy is killing me. We’re just a small-town police department -- this really taxes us."

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-george-zimmerman-update-20130909,0,3394113.story





Baldimo
 
  1  
Mon 9 Sep, 2013 03:44 pm
@firefly,
Or it could be the crazy antic's of a soon to be ex-wife? Anytime something involves 2 people who are getting a divorce, it should always be taken with a grain of salt.
firefly
 
  0  
Mon 9 Sep, 2013 03:52 pm
He was released without charges...but the police can decide to file them later.

Of course, Zimmerman claimed he was acting in a "defensive manner" during this incident too. Rolling Eyes

Quote:
George Zimmerman's Wife on 911 Tape: 'I Am Really, Really Scared'
Sept. 9, 2013
By COLLEEN CURRY, MATT GUTMAN

George Zimmerman was released without charges today after his wife called 911 to say Zimmerman punched his father-in-law in the nose and threatened to shoot him and his wife.

Zimmerman, acquitted in July of the murder of teenager Trayvon Martin, claimed that he was acting in a "defensive manner" during the incident, according to police.

Zimmerman was handcuffed and questioned by police in Lake Mary, Fla., according to Lake Mary Police Chief Steve Bracknell.

He was later released without charges when his wife and father-in-law refused to press charges or give police a sworn statement. Police said they are reviewing surveillance video from the home and reserve the right to file charges later based on the video.

Shellie Zimmerman called 911 shortly after 2 p.m. today and reported that her husband assaulted her father, Colin Morgan, and was waving a gun around and threatening her and her relatives, according to police in Lake Mary, Fla.

Lake Mary police took the call "extremely seriously" and sent eight units, including officers in tactical gear with ballistic shields, to the home, according to Bracknell.

In the 911 call, Shellie Zimmerman tells a dispatcher that her husband was in his car raging, adding "he continually has his hand on his gun and he says step closer…" When Shellie Zimmerman trails off the dispatcher asks "step closer and what?" to which Shellie responds "a Step closer and he'd shoot us."

Zimmerman, who claimed self-defense after he shot and killed Martin, told police in a statement that he was acting in "a defensive manner" during the incident and did not have his hand on his gun, according to Lake Mary police spokesman Zach Hudson.

Shellie Zimmerman and her father said they do not want to press charges, Bracknell said. Both Shellie's lawyer, Kelly Sims, as well as George Zimmerman's lawyer were at the home, ABC News has learned.

The 911 tapes describe a terrified Shellie Zimmerman. On the call to a police dispatcher she told police that her husband punched her father in the nose, smashed her iPad, cut it with a pocketknife and raged, "one step closer and he'd shoot us."

"I don't know what he's capable of. I am really, really scared," she told the dispatcher.

When police arrived she could be heard on the phone saying, "Dad, get behind a car or something. I don't know if he's going to start shooting at us or not."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-custody-domestic-incident-involving-gun/story?id=20203329
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 9 Sep, 2013 03:53 pm
@Baldimo,
How funny!@ A woman contacts the police based on her fears about her ex-husband, and it should be taken with a grain of salt?

hawkeye10
 
  0  
Mon 9 Sep, 2013 03:53 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:

Or it could be the crazy antic's of a soon to be ex-wife? Anytime something involves 2 people who are getting a divorce, it should always be taken with a grain of salt.


even more so if this woman is changing career fields, becoming a victim culture promoter. I could not script a better 911 call to elevate my victim cred.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Mon 9 Sep, 2013 04:01 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

How funny!@ A woman contacts the police based on her fears about her ex-husband, and it should be taken with a grain of salt?



given the number of restraining orders that are maliciously applied on men by their soon to be ex's, yes. even if this woman is not headed for selling victim culture there is reason to take her vlaims against George with a grain of salt.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Mon 9 Sep, 2013 04:01 pm
@Baldimo,
Quote:
Or it could be the crazy antic's of a soon to be ex-wife?

Oh please....

You forget that she walked out on him the day before he shot Martin because they had a very nasty argument.

The man has a history of abusing females, and he's already killed one person. You can't believe she's really scared of him? The most dangerous time for a woman with an abusive or controlling partner is when she decides to split from him. And she just filed divorce papers.

She has no reason to pull any "antics".

And he shouldn't be walking around with a gun...he's a walking time bomb.
0 Replies
 
 

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