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The State of Florida vs George Zimmerman: The Trial

 
 
firefly
 
  2  
Sat 7 Sep, 2013 06:01 pm
@Moment-in-Time,
Quote:
After the prosecutor had worked to discredit Jeantel, my heart sank, because she was the one witness to the actual happening even though by cell.

I think you mean the defense, Moment-in-Time, not the prosecution. It was the defense attorney who worked to discredit her.

And I don't think he really succeeded, she stuck to her version of her conversation with Martin. But he really badgered her in other ways so she just wouldn't present to the jury well. The defense attorney's attitude toward her was extremely condescending and demeaning. It was a terribly humiliating ordeal for this young woman to go through, particularly the revelations about her literacy, her ability to read cursive script, etc. And none of those things were relevant to Martin's death. She didn't want to be involved in any of this, or to expose herself to any of this, but she really had no choice in the matter, she was the last person to speak with Martin, and her testimony was important.

What I found interesting was how sensitive Rachel Jeantel was to the social class difference between herself and Trayvon's mother. That's why it was so anxiety provoking for her to write Sybrina Fulton a letter about that last phone conversation she had with her son. It wasn't just that she didn't want to quote Trayvon as using language that might upset or offend his mother, Jeantel clearly felt uncomfortable about her own ability to write a proper letter to this very proper, college educated, lady. She had to have someone else actually write out the letter for her, so the letter would physically look good, better than she could write it out herself, and, she was so awkward and hesitant about getting involved she signed it with one of her nicknames rather than her full name. I found that all very touching in terms of how uncomfortable this young woman felt about the situation she found herself in, and how inexperienced she was in handling basic social interchanges, like a simple letter. She hadn't even been able to muster up the ability to attend Trayvon Martin's funeral, she really couldn't deal with it.

I'm glad I got to see Rachel Jeantel on two interview shows after her trial ordeal was over. When not under the stress of being on a witness stand, she is more relaxed, more poised, more confident, and really able to express herself quite well. She seemed quite nice and she is refreshingly candid. She did get a lot of good support from people who reached out to her after seeing what she went through in court, and in the social media as well. A radio talk show host offered to pay her tuition at any traditional black college of her choice, and she accepted his offer. I'm glad someone is giving her a chance at a better future, and I think she'll work hard to make the most of it. I don't think she's gotten many breaks in her life.







0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Sat 7 Sep, 2013 06:24 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Jeantel is not only a proven liar and an apparent retard, but she had nothing relavant to say because she does not claim any knowledge about what happened when these two guys met. it does not matter if you were fascinated by this train wreck.

She's considerably less of a liar than George Zimmerman, with his elaborate scheme to conceal assets and a second passport from a judge, and then letting his wife take a perjury rap for misleading the judge when she was under oath.

Jeantel lied about minor things, to try to keep herself from being dragged into anything to do with Martin's death. She said she was in the hospital, so she wouldn't have to go to the funeral, she said she was only 16, hoping she wouldn't be made to testify if they thought she was a minor,-and she admitted to lying about those things, which really weren't serious lies that affected this case in any way. She really didn't want to be involved in anything to do with this death.

And she did claim to have knowledge of what went on when Zimmerman and Trayvon met--and her account contradicts Zimmerman's version that Martin came out of the bushes and ambushed him. She heard Zimmerman approach Martin and speak to him, and Martin answer him, and the last thing she heard Martin say to Zimmerman was, "Get off me," suggesting that Zimmerman was doing something to him, and then the phone was dropped and went dead because a struggle or fight began.

I don't think Jeantel is "a retard". She may well have a learning disability that affects reading/writing abilities, but, seeing her in two interviews, beside her court testimony, her comprehension and reasoning abilities are not significantly below the norm. Her thought processes are in pretty good shape. She's just not very emotionally mature or socially polished, and a lot of that may be cultural and class related and not indicative of her intellect.
hawkeye10
 
  3  
Sat 7 Sep, 2013 08:05 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Rachel calls back at 7:12:06 pm, and the call ends 218 seconds later (3 min. 38 seconds) or at 7:15:44. Witness 11,the first 911 caller, got through at 7:16:11. The gunshot was around 7:16:53. So there was about one minute in between the time Martin's phone disconnected and the gunshot.

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2013/7/1/92244/82226/crimenews/Trayvon-Martin-s-Cell-Phone-Records
so she says that it took only 25 seconds after the fight started for someone to get through to 911, and she admits that she knows nothing about the 1 minute fight other than her claim that zimmerman started it.

ok, she makes a claim about contact, but it is a wild one.....in my experience people dont make up their minds to call 911 about a fight that they are only hearing in 10-15 seconds.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Sat 7 Sep, 2013 08:07 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
Jeantel is not only a proven liar and an apparent retard . . .
an ADMITTED liar,
contrasted with Zimmy 's passing his lie detector test
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Sat 7 Sep, 2013 08:10 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
contrasted with Zimmy 's passing his lie detector test

who kinda sorta lied about money by staying quiet as the wife spoke, but that is like lying about sex, which the left is perfectly OK with.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Sat 7 Sep, 2013 08:14 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Jeantel is not only a proven liar and an apparent retard, but she had nothing relavant to say because she does not claim any knowledge about what happened when these two guys met. it does not matter if you were fascinated by this train wreck.
firefly wrote:
. . . Jeantel lied about minor things, to try to keep herself from being dragged into anything to do with Martin's death.
That is to say:
she lies about things that she cares enuf about to LIE.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Sat 7 Sep, 2013 08:16 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
contrasted with Zimmy 's passing his lie detector test

who kinda sorta lied about money by staying quiet as the wife spoke, but that is like lying about sex,
which the left is perfectly OK with.
Remaining silent is NOT lying.





David
BillRM
 
  0  
Sat 7 Sep, 2013 10:05 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
David, I find is truly amazing how the news media and the race baiters and the anti gun nuts can turn a simple and indeed a legal text book example of justifiable homicide into some strange racial killing of an innocent child.

Even when the facts does not come anywhere near to supporting the story they wish to try to sell come hell or high water.

How can anyone with the IQ to turn on a computer and log onto this website buy into a fantasy that have not one bit of fact supporting it?
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Sat 7 Sep, 2013 10:09 pm
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:
What do you have to back that up?

Words to live by: "Every single thing that Frank Apisa ever says is always an absolute lie."
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Sat 7 Sep, 2013 10:10 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
With the exception of David maybe no one here has claimed that Zimmerman acted as a God and did nothing wrong.

I'm not sure what a God acts like, but I do not see anything particularly wrong on Mr. Zimmerman's part.

Given Trayvon's history of using extremely deranged drugs, his history of burglary, his carrying of ingredients to mix with his extremely deranged drugs, and his casing of houses, it is quite possible that Mr. Zimmerman's actions prevented Trayvon from massacring multiple families that night.
oralloy
 
  0  
Sat 7 Sep, 2013 10:10 pm
@Moment-in-Time,
Moment-in-Time wrote:
And this is the primary reason Zimmerman dared not take the stand in his own defense. He would have had to explain why he got out of his car and continued following Trayvon when he was told clearly "you need not do that."

Why would Mr. Zimmerman be asked to explain something that never happened? I don't think the prosecution was quite that incompetent.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Sat 7 Sep, 2013 10:11 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
Getting out of his car or not getting out of his car after being told you do not need to do that is beside the point.

It would indeed be beside the point, had it actually happened.

But in reality he was never told "he didn't need to do that" before getting out of the car.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Sat 7 Sep, 2013 10:12 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
if Zimmerman is telling the truth he allowed himself to get jumped,

No one "allows" themselves to get jumped. They don't tend to have a choice in the matter.


hawkeye10 wrote:
and then he made the mistake of shooting to kill which I dont see how can be justified.

It is justified by the fact that he was being violently attacked.


hawkeye10 wrote:
Martin ended up dead in part by mistakes Zimmerman made, but they are not the acts for which he has been vilified.

I don't perceive any mistakes.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Sat 7 Sep, 2013 10:39 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
hit him with a bullet to the shoulder to stun him, kick him off, and then cover till the cops come.

You're going to get someone killed with that advice. Shooting an aggressor in the shoulder is hardly going to stun them.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Sat 7 Sep, 2013 10:41 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
BillRM wrote:
You do not shoot to wound in self defense shootings.

the police are by law required to use the min force required, citizens should be as well.

Both police and citizens are supposed to empty their clips into the center of the target's chest.

They are supposed to aim with the goal of having every bullet pass through both the heart and the spine.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Sat 7 Sep, 2013 10:45 pm
@Moment-in-Time,
Moment-in-Time wrote:
firefly wrote:
And finally, Rachel Jeantel was a very key witness for the prosecution and she was not well prepared by them. Her demeanor may have affected her credibility with the jury, and the prosecution, or even her own lawyer, should have worked with her to help her feel more comfortable on the witness stand so that she wouldn't feel so vulnerable. She clearly was reluctant to be there, and I can't say I'd blame her, particularly given the ridicule she was subjected to. I personally found her refreshingly natural and spontaneous, and very credible, but I also found it painful watching the defense attorney trying to humiliate her.

Yes, I found Rachel Jeantel not only credible but fascinating to observe.

How do you get around her proven history of lying about this case?

More importantly, how do you get around the reality that her testimony is contradicted by actual physical evidence?


Maybe the first one could be explained away. There could be scenarios where someone lied earlier in the case, but then told the truth at trial.

But I don't see any way around the fact that her trial testimony is outright contradicted by the evidence.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Sat 7 Sep, 2013 11:22 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
it is a shame that these two guys got into it resulting in Travon ending up dead.
BillRM wrote:
It is a shame that Trayvon did not just walk home
instead of turning and attacking Zimmerman.
Yes. Poor Zimmy.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Sat 7 Sep, 2013 11:39 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
If Zimmerman's advocates could fully accept and support all of his actions of that night, there would be no need to dwell on anything about his shooting victim's past--neither the good nor the bad--because it would all be irrelevant.
With the exception of David maybe no one here
has claimed that Zimmerman acted as a God
. . .
R u on hallucinogenic drugs, Hawkeye?????
I have made NO theological affirmations of this case.

My saying that Zimmy is a good guy is not the same as deifying him.





David
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Sun 8 Sep, 2013 03:08 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

LOL there are far far more areas of human achievements then putting sentences together and those areas allowed you to try to insult me over the internet instead of chipping rocks to record your opinions........

An as far as the society valuing of your abilities compared to mine I was paid around four times more then the companies secretaries that reviews the engineers grammar and almost double what the tech writers was paid to produce the customers and service manuals.

Sorry dear but anything you have beyond the cave is the result of people like me designing it.


So you are the guy who designed my dick. Good job, Bill.
BillRM
 
  1  
Sun 8 Sep, 2013 06:04 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
So you are the guy who designed my dick. Good job, Bill


Oh? After decades of getting complains from you that it was far too small now you are happy?.
0 Replies
 
 

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