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The State of Florida vs George Zimmerman: The Trial

 
 
Baldimo
 
  0  
Thu 22 Aug, 2013 04:21 pm
@firefly,
I don't know more than the Judge but why put it out there when no one used it during the trial? Wasn't there an offer of a SYG trial that was turned down by the Defense?

If that is the case and there was a separate trial offered why bring it up in this trial? It sounds like it was an attempt to muddy the trial and blame the SYG law instead of the shitty Prosecution lawyer, who didn't have a case. Most of the prosecution witnesses sounded like they were there for the Defense not the state. It was a horrible trial all the way around.
BillRM
 
  0  
Thu 22 Aug, 2013 04:21 pm
@Baldimo,
Yes, it was a very simple case of self defense as there was no way Zimmerman could have safety retreat once he knew that Trayvon was going to attacked him.

The old self defense law with a duty to retreat if possible does not demand of you that you are a mind reader and knew that some young hoodlum would knocked you down and try to pound your brain out before hand.

Nor is there a path of retreat open with said hoodlum on top of you.
BillRM
 
  0  
Thu 22 Aug, 2013 04:23 pm
@Baldimo,
Quote:
I don't know more than the Judge but why put it out there when no one used it during the trial? Wasn't there an offer of a SYG trial that was turned down by the Defense?


The talking heads legal experts also stated over and over this was a simple case of self defense during the trial and SYG have little to do with it.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Thu 22 Aug, 2013 04:26 pm
@Baldimo,
Blah, blah, blah...
firefly
 
  1  
Thu 22 Aug, 2013 04:28 pm
@BillRM,
http://www.adrants.com/images/head_up_ass.jpg
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  0  
Thu 22 Aug, 2013 04:33 pm
@firefly,
Blah, blah, blah all you want to. When the narrative of what happened is not put out there properly it needs to be corrected. Martin wasn't just walking around when he was shot, he was in the process of attacking someone. That is the truth no matter how you or the media try to twist it. If Martin hadn't attacked Zimmerman he wouldn't have been shot. It is that plain.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Thu 22 Aug, 2013 04:34 pm
Some legal experts think that the SGY law have some impact with the burden of proof still as another legal expert stated having someone on top of you limit your ability to retreat in any case and that the whole situation was a text book example of self defense.

Quote:


http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2013/07/14/legal-insights-on-the-zimmerman-verdict/


Legal Insights on the Zimmerman Verdict
Article
Comments (49)
LAW BLOG HOME PAGE »

By Joe Palazzolo


Associated Press
George Zimmerman leaves court with his family after Zimmerman’s not guilty verdict was read in court.
We asked a panel of self-defense experts for reactions to a jury finding George Zimmerman not guilty of all charges in the death of Trayvon Martin.

Joshua Dressler, a professor at The Ohio State University Michael E. Moritz College of Law, said the acquittal came as no surprise. In an email to Law Blog, he wrote:

Given the presumption of innocence and Florida’s Stand Your Ground law, which places an even greater burden of proof on the prosecutor, the acquittal was no surprise in light of the conflicting evidence. One could see that the prosecutor knew he was in trouble when he asked to include a manslaughter count, and even tried the outrageous felony-murder count (that the judge rejected). Race was never expressly raised, but it was still there lurking. The question that the criminal trial didn’t answer, and probably couldn’t is whether, had Trayvon Martin had been white, Zimmerman would have grown suspicion and confronted the person so aggressively.

The state’s 2005 “Stand Your Ground” law removed a person’s duty to try to run away in the face of danger before using deadly force, created a presumption that such force is lawful and immunized those who kill in self-defense from prosecution and private lawsuits.

The law provides that a person who claims to have killed in self-defense can seek a court ruling, before any trial, that he acted legally, but Mr. Zimmerman and his lawyer decided against that option and presented his case directly to a jury.

Still, according to Mr. Dressler, the law played a role in the trial.

The statute itself places the burden of persuasion regarding self-defense on the prosecutor — to prove that the defendant did NOT act in self-defense. In the past, in most states, if a defendant claimed self-defense, it was up to the defendant to prove he DID act in self-defense. So the SYG law in this case had an important legal impact.

Stephen P. Garvey, a professor at Cornell Law School, said he thinks the jury “got it right.”

Unless you think Zimmerman “provoked” the use of force against himself it was pretty easy to find self defense. If you think he did “provoke” the use of force you have a pretty expansive view of provocation. Think about it. Even if Zimmerman did follow Martin, should that mean he loses the right to defend himself when thereafter faced with an imminent threat of death or serious bodily harm? Following someone when maybe you shouldn’t shouldn’t make you guilty of murder, or even manslaughter.

Andrew Branca, a Massachusetts lawyer and author of “The Law of Self Defense, 2nd Edition,” went even further. The Zimmerman case, he said, “would make a very nice case study of the justifiable use of deadly force in self-defense for a law school criminal law text book.”

Mr. Branca explained why the most recognizable aspect of the “Stand Your Ground” law didn’t apply in Mr. Zimmerman’s case.

“Stand your ground” is a legal release from the traditional duty to retreat, if safely possible, before using force in self-defense. When safe retreat is not possible, however, the duty does not apply. If the duty does not apply, “stand your ground” is not needed to release you from that duty. In this case, at the moment George Zimmerman used deadly force in self-defense his attacker was pinning him to the ground and reaching for his gun. [This is Mr. Zimmerman's version of events.] Under such circumstances no reasonable avenue of self-defense exists, so there is no duty to retreat even absent “stand your ground.”

The next legal issue will likely center on Florida’s self-defense immunity statute, 776.032, he said. (The immunity provision was passed as part of the “Stand Your Ground” law.)

While Mr. Zimmerman’s defense lawyers elected against seeking immunity before trial, they have said they will do so should he face a private lawsuit related to Trayvon Martin’s death, Mr. Branca noted.

george zimmerman, Trayvon
Martin
firefly
 
  1  
Thu 22 Aug, 2013 04:43 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
The state’s 2005 “Stand Your Ground” law removed a person’s duty to try to run away in the face of danger before using deadly force, created a presumption that such force is lawful and immunized those who kill in self-defense from prosecution and private lawsuits.

The law provides that a person who claims to have killed in self-defense can seek a court ruling, before any trial, that he acted legally, but Mr. Zimmerman and his lawyer decided against that option and presented his case directly to a jury.

Still, according to Mr. Dressler, the law played a role in the trial.

The statute itself places the burden of persuasion regarding self-defense on the prosecutor — to prove that the defendant did NOT act in self-defense. In the past, in most states, if a defendant claimed self-defense, it was up to the defendant to prove he DID act in self-defense. So the SYG law in this case had an important legal impact
http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2013/07/14/legal-insights-on-the-zimmerman-verdict/

You're too dumb to even understand the material you post.

http://memecrunch.com/meme/GXOC/cant-tell-if-head-up-ass/image.png

0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Thu 22 Aug, 2013 04:47 pm
http://www.cleveredfool.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/george-zimmerman-demotivational-posters-casey-anthony-oj-simpson.jpg
Baldimo
 
  0  
Thu 22 Aug, 2013 04:49 pm
@firefly,
If these cases were even close to each other, you might have a point. Martin was punching Zimmerman. You seem to keep forgetting this little but important fact!
firefly
 
  1  
Thu 22 Aug, 2013 04:55 pm
@Baldimo,
blah, blah, blah...

Zimmerman should have remained in his vehicle and not followed Martin. All you're doing is defending his stupidity and lousy judgment. And, the problem with SYG is that it excuses such stupidity and lousy judgment, even when it results in needless and totally avoidable deaths. That's the message in that anti-SYG PSA.

George is right in there with O.J. and Casey Anthony in terms of getting away with murder. Even one of the jurors acknowledged that.
firefly
 
  1  
Thu 22 Aug, 2013 05:00 pm
http://static.someecards.com/someecards/usercards/MjAxMy1lYzY1ZWYwNzI1YjAxZjg1.png
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Thu 22 Aug, 2013 05:08 pm
@firefly,
Should Zimmerman have stayed in his car? Maybe. He was offered advice on staying in his car, it wasn't an order because the person who offered the advice wasn't a law enforcement official with law enforcement powers.

Where do you put Martin in all of this? He is innocent of attacking Zimmerman? If he hadn't been shot what kind of damage would he have done to Zimmerman? I'm guessing you wouldn't have cared if Zimmerman died or was seriously injured.
BillRM
 
  0  
Thu 22 Aug, 2013 05:13 pm
@Baldimo,
Quote:
You seem to keep forgetting this little but important fact!


Firefly never have a problem with disregarding facts that do not forward her arguments.

That is one of the many things that made her so lovable.
BillRM
 
  0  
Thu 22 Aug, 2013 05:19 pm
@Baldimo,
Quote:
I'm guessing you wouldn't have cared if Zimmerman died or was seriously injured.


She and us are unlikely to had known of the attack if Zimmerman had done the right thing in Firefly eyes and allowed himself to be killed.

Black teenage hoodlum killed Latin crime watch captain is hardly more then local news item unlike Latin crime watch captain pull of a legal gun out and killed hoodlum.

Sorry not a hoodlum but a 17 years old child with a smiling picture at the age of 14 or so.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Thu 22 Aug, 2013 05:22 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:

Firefly never have a problem with disregarding facts that do not forward her arguments.


her main skill however is the artful use of deceptive language to mis-represent reality for personal benefit ("winning" debates). She is the Gordon Gekko of language.
firefly
 
  1  
Thu 22 Aug, 2013 05:35 pm
@Baldimo,
Martin wouldn't have done anything to Zimmerman, and Zimmerman wouldn't have done anything to Martin, had Zimmerman just stayed in his vehicle and waited for the police to show up.

SYG laws should not be used to excuse stupidity and bad judgment that results in needless and avoidable deaths--and actions that would be regarded as manslaughter in other states.

The SYG laws should be repealed or changed.

If Zimmerman had exercised good judgment, and remained in his vehicle that night, no one would have been hurt.

In addition to being a child killer, Zimmerman is a colossal asshole.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 22 Aug, 2013 05:38 pm
@hawkeye10,
Your accusations are baseless. If you do not agree with anything anyone posts on a2k, it's up to "you" to provide reliable evidence that what is posted is wrong.

Generalities like your's belongs on the laffer trash can.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Thu 22 Aug, 2013 05:50 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Your accusations are baseless. If you do not agree with anything anyone posts on a2k, it's up to "you" to provide reliable evidence that what is posted is wrong.

Generalities like your's belongs on the laffer trash can.
that is rich coming from you, an over emotional sort who almost never backs up anything you say with evidence. Even getting a argument out of you is a stretch, drive-bys being your forte.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 22 Aug, 2013 05:52 pm
@hawkeye10,
We've gone through this many times before. All I'm asking from you is the cut and paste from any of my posts that I have refused to provide some form of support for what I've posted.

You have NEVER provided any.

0 Replies
 
 

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