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The State of Florida vs George Zimmerman: The Trial

 
 
firefly
 
  -1  
Thu 15 Aug, 2013 09:56 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
He chose to defend his naborhood from burglary
by spying on potential burglars and calling the police on them,

Had he just called the police, and remained in his vehicle, and let the police show up and do their job, there would have been no problem.

Unfortunately, Zimmerman had neither the good judgment, nor sufficient impulse control, to do that.

It was not within his authority, or obligation, or responsibility, to "defend his neighborhood" beyond noting "suspicious" activity and calling the police. He was not a security guard, or a law enforcement agent, in any sense, and taking that role upon himself, because of his own personal issues, simply turned him into a vigilante.

A Neighborhood Watch, means just that--you simply report suspicious activity to the police.
http://conservativebyte.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/ZimmermanNeighborhoodWatchPIX.jpg
http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/ktu/lowres/ktun295l.jpg

0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  -1  
Thu 15 Aug, 2013 10:00 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
Zimmerman is the type that see someone in trouble will react at once and render aid and support.

So why didn't it occur to him that Martin might be ill, or lost, and in need of assistance when he saw him wandering around? Why did he only interpret Martin's behavior as being indicative of possible criminal activity? Why didn't he drive over and ask Martin if he needed help?
Quote:
A hell of a wonderful neighbor to have living near you.

Not when he erroneously profiles one of your house guests, and then winds up killing him.

I don't think the homeowners association of that housing complex regarded him as a "wonderful neighbor" when they paid out a $1 million+ settlement to Trayvon Martin's parents.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  2  
Thu 15 Aug, 2013 10:16 am
@firefly,
Quote:
Simply because Trayvon Martin had the tragic misfortune of being a homicide victim,


A jury has now determined that not to be the case. Trayvon was a victim of his own shitty behavior and the logical consequences of it.
gungasnake
 
  1  
Thu 15 Aug, 2013 10:28 am
http://www.politicsweb.co.za/politicsweb/view/politicsweb/en/page71619?oid=398112&sn=Detail&pid=71616

Quote:
....At 10:30am the following day (February 28) Serino briefed Tracy Martin on the case and explained Zimmerman's account of what had happened, why no arrest had yet been made (given the available evidence), and that investigations were continuing. He also played a recording of various 911 recordings. In one of these a voice can be heard desperately screaming for help. Serino asked Tracy Martin whether that was his son's voice. Martin responded "no". Serino did not, however, play the recording of Zimmerman's call to the police non-emergency number (NEN) before the shooting though Martin was informed of its existence.

Martin, through a contact, proceeded to reach out to Benjamin Crump - a Tallahassee lawyer, who had secured a settlement for $7.2 million in damages from the state of Florida and Bay County for the family of a black teenager who had died in a boot-camp style detention centre in 2006. Crump brought in another lawyer, Natalie Jackson, whose mother lived in Sanford and she, in turn, engaged Ryan Julison a publicist with whom she had worked in the past.

Trayvon Martin's body was released to the family that week, and his funeral was held on March 3. Up until this point there had been a few limited reports (see here and here) in the local news media - but most did not name either Trayvon Martin or George Zimmerman.

The controversy

It is important to note what Tracy Martin and Sybrina Fulton, his ex-wife and the mother of Trayvon, knew at this time. Tracy Martin had been fully briefed about George Zimmerman's account of what had happened and the evidence, such as it was, that seemed to support it. Martin and Fulton were also obviously familiar with their son and his background, particularly his recent record at school.

The police had already collected substantial evidence as well as numerous statements from Zimmerman. But the investigation was ongoing and they were keeping the information they had collected confidential. George Zimmerman and his family meanwhile were not talking to reporters. There was a critical two week gap in which the Martin family and their legal and public relations team were able to aggressively push their account of what had happened, with very weak contestation from the police and none from Zimmerman himself. In this period the Martin team was able to frame the story in the public imagination, and instigate the national outcry which ultimately drove the arrest and prosecution......
firefly
 
  0  
Thu 15 Aug, 2013 10:33 am
@gungasnake,
Quote:
A jury has now determined that not to be the case. Trayvon was a victim of his own shitty behavior and the logical consequences of it.

No. that's not what the jury determined.

No verdict was rendered by the jury regarding Trayvon Martin. He was not the defendant--he was the victim. The only one on trial was George Zimmerman--this case was Florida vs Zimmerman.

And, thanks to the vagaries of Florida law, George Zimmerman was able to escape the legal consequences of "his own shitty behavior" that night.

In case you have forgotten, one of the 6 jurors has said that, "George Zimmerman got away with murder."
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 15 Aug, 2013 10:37 am
@firefly,
True. Anybody serving in that jury had no choice but to find Zimmerman now guilty. That doesn't mean he was innocent. There was no other choice by the jury because of the vagaries of Florida law on SYG, and the instruction given by the judge to the jury.

The prosecution also failed to do their job.

Those who understand serving on juries know that most would have arrived at the same conclusion; not guilty.

However, that one juror who said Zimmerman got away with murder is spot on!
firefly
 
  -1  
Thu 15 Aug, 2013 10:42 am
@gungasnake,
You seem to have forgotten that the police wanted to arrest Zimmerman right after the shooting and charge him with manslaughter. It was the D.A. who declined to do that. The police report from the night of the shooting did classify this homicide as an "unnecessary killing"--i.e. a violation of the manslaughter statute.

Trayvon Martin's parents sought legal assistance to hold their son's killer accountable, and to have him arrested--just as the police wanted to do right after the shooting.

And why are you even bringing this up now?
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Thu 15 Aug, 2013 10:55 am
@firefly,
There you go again!

ONE police officer wanted him arrested. The police chef ordered no arrest because in his legal opinion such an arrest would have violated the Florida Constition.
gungasnake
 
  2  
Thu 15 Aug, 2013 11:11 am
@firefly,
If that one juror really believed that, she had the power to simply hang the jury. Three of the jurors saw the thing as an open and shut case of self defense, the other three wanted to convict GZ of SOMETHING because they felt sorry for the Martins; the first three convinced the others they couldn't do that and that, worst case, the evidence to convict GZ of anything simply wasn't there.

Mark O'Mara noted that this was one of the rare cases in which he as a defense lawyer could actually demonstrate beyond any reasonable doubt that his client was totally innocent, i.e. that you could turn the standard of proof 180-degrees around and place the burden of proof on the defendant, and he would STILL win in front of any sort of an honest jury.

You are basically promulgating a big lie, and so is salon.com, DU, your fucked-up cartoon artist, the Jackson/Sharpton combine, and everybody/anybody ellse still trying to tell this FUBAR story.
firefly
 
  -1  
Thu 15 Aug, 2013 11:21 am
@cicerone imposter,
You know, C.I., I can believe that George Zimmerman made a terrible mistake that night. He erroneously profiled an innocent kid, who was really minding his own business, as a criminal suspect, and then he compounded this initial error in judgment by exercising even poorer judgment in everything he did after that, and he created a tragedy for everyone involved, including himself, simply because he could not sit in his vehicle and wait for the police to show up.

George Zimmerman didn't know that Trayvon Martin was a guest in that community, and he didn't know Martin was just meandering around, and talking on his cell phone, as he returned from a trip to the store. He didn't know that Martin had no interest in any criminal activity, and that he was simply on his way home to watch a basketball game.

But the people who are posting in this thread, and attempting to racially profile, and demonize, Trayvon Martin, do know these things. And that makes their attacks on this young man's character all the more reprehensible and unjustified--and considerably worse than anything George Zimmerman did in profiling Martin. Where Zimmerman might have made a mistake, what these posters are doing, in trying to vilify Martin, is quite intentional and deliberate, and often blatantly racist.

I hope that some day George Zimmerman will simply acknowledge the mistake he made that night, and the dangers inherent in racial profiling. I think if he could at least do that, and take some responsibility for his own poor judgment and impulsive actions, it would help to defuse some of the anger people feel toward him. That might help him to be able to resume some sort of normal life.

Unfortunately, Zimmerman hasn't acknowledged any responsibility on his part for creating the circumstances that led to a tragic and needless death. In fact, his own comments have just made matters worse. When Sean Hannity asked Zimmerman whether he regretted any of his actions of that night and whether, in retrospect, he would do anything differently, Zimmerman said, "No," and he further tried to absolve himself of responsibility by asserting that the events of that night were, "Part of God's plan." It's that kind of thinking that makes it really disturbing that Zimmerman has a new gun. He doesn't learn from his own mistakes.

http://media.cagle.com/147/2012/07/21/115564_600.jpg
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  -1  
Thu 15 Aug, 2013 11:26 am
@hawkeye10,
No, Hawkeye, the chief police investigator on the shooting recommended Zimmerman's arrest, for manslaughter, to the D.A. right after the shooting--the D.A. passed on it. It was the D.A,'s action that created all of the flack. And that's why a special prosecutor was appointed.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Thu 15 Aug, 2013 11:33 am
@gungasnake,
It was funny as most of the prosecutor witnesses sound more like defense witnesses instead.

The state have zero case and it should never had gone to trial and it would never had gone to trial except for the news media and Sharpton and his like.

The case have zero merit on it face.
gungasnake
 
  2  
Thu 15 Aug, 2013 11:34 am
Horst Wessel's Funeral:


Touching, isn't it? Almost like Trayvon.....
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Thu 15 Aug, 2013 11:37 am
@BillRM,
Glad I'm not the only person here who gets it...

Most observers were saying that the trial was over before they ever got to the first defense witness.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  0  
Thu 15 Aug, 2013 11:44 am
@gungasnake,
Quote:
If that one juror really believed that, she had the power to simply hang the jury

She may have had the power, but she didn't have the stamina, or intestinal fortitude, or the guts, to do that.

She also clearly misinterpreted the manslaughter law, or other jurors convinced her of a misinterpretation, because she was clearly under the impression that manslaughter requires intent, or premeditation, which it does not.

Six member juries are ridiculous in a murder case, you need more diversity of opinion than that--which is why other states have 12 person juries in a case like this.

You are the one doing the lying--and dragging the Nazis into the mix--because you have an agenda to promote in terms of gun ownership, as do the other vocal Zimmerman cheerleaders who have been posting in this thread. You're supporting the gun lobby/NRA, and pro-gun laws, and that's just about your only interest. And you disregard all the evidence that gets in the way of that, as well as the fact that this was a totally needless and avoidable death.

If you're not lying, gunga, you are just deluded. Take your pick.
firefly
 
  0  
Thu 15 Aug, 2013 11:47 am
@BillRM,
http://www.adrants.com/images/head_up_ass.jpg
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  2  
Thu 15 Aug, 2013 12:48 pm
@gungasnake,
Quote:
who are living in some sort of an alternate reality in which the normal rules of evidence, logic, and any sort of an intelligent approach to fact finding or dealing with reality, are trumped by agendas and feelings.


Obviously gunga--the only approach not trumped by agendas and feelings is the economic one. As I have been raising it all along it must be the members who ignore an economic approach because taking one puts the NRA in the dock and that disturbs their feelings and agendas., who you are complaining about. And your complaint might just as easily be directed at posters on many another debate I have been in.

We seem to have no answer to the question, asked a few times, as to the economic benefits of 300,000,000 guns so it's reasonable to assume there are no economic benefits to set against the enormous cost. Just wall to wall dangerous nuisance.

And there's no answer to why kids should be discriminated against in the matter of personal protection in various public places.

So ask yourself who is not answering these questions and you have your alternate reality posters identified.

All you need to deprogram people is to show them that their assertions are not true solely on the basis of them having made them.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Thu 15 Aug, 2013 12:48 pm
@firefly,
While reading your post, it reminded me of that movie "Twelve Angry Men." I'm now watching it on U-Tube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0NlNOI5LG0
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  2  
Thu 15 Aug, 2013 01:09 pm
@spendius,
What is the cost benefit analysis of the other Amendments? If we are going to put an economic price on the 2nd amendment why not the rest of them?

spendius
 
  2  
Thu 15 Aug, 2013 01:15 pm
@Baldimo,
I'm up for that. I daresay that the 16th and the 19th have cost plenty.
0 Replies
 
 

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