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The State of Florida vs George Zimmerman: The Trial

 
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Wed 14 Aug, 2013 09:28 pm
@gungasnake,
Quote:
Assuming there ARE such cases


Whites killing blacks for racial reasons petty must ended after the civil right movement won the day in the time period 1950s 1960s.

All the killings of that kind that come to mind was during the civil right movement.

Prisons and prison gangs do have killings base on race but as far as the general population it is damn rare indeed.

But the Fireflies and the Sharptons need to come up with white gang rapes of black women that never happen and turning straight forward self defense killings into racial murder.

Hmm I kind of remember a black man/kid that did get chase and kill by whites hoodlums in the north later then the 1960s but such events are indeed rare.

Howard Beach New York in 1986 white mob chase black man to a highway where he was killed by a car in trying to get away from them.
firefly
 
  0  
Wed 14 Aug, 2013 10:31 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Whites killing blacks for racial reasons petty must ended after the civil right movement won the day in the time period 1950s 1960s.

All the killings of that kind that come to mind was during the civil right movement.


Your racist head is still up your ass. These racially motivated crimes have never stopped happening.

Just within the past year, these two cases, one a murder and the other a serious assault, were adjudicated.

Quote:
Two Mississippi Men Plead Guilty to Committing Hate Crimes Against African-Americans
U.S. Department of Justice December 04, 2012

WASHINGTON—William Kirk Montgomery, 23, from Puckett, Mississippi, and Jonathan K. Gaskamp, 20, from Brandon, Mississippi, pleaded guilty today in U.S. District Court in Jackson, Mississippi, to conspiracy and federal hate crime charges in connection with their roles in the assault of African-Americans in Jackson, the Justice Department announced today. Defendants Deryl Paul Dedmon, 20; John Aaron Rice, 19; and Dylan Wade Butler, 21, all from Brandon, Mississippi, have previously entered guilty pleas in connection with their roles in these offenses. The conspiracy culminated in the death of James Craig Anderson, who was assaulted and killed on June 26, 2011.

Montgomery and Gaskamp were both charged with one count of conspiracy and one count of violating the Matthew Sheppard James Byrd, Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act.

Beginning in the spring of 2011, Montgomery, Gaskamp, and others conspired with one another to harass and assault African-Americans in and around Jackson. On numerous occasions, the co-conspirators used dangerous weapons, including beer bottles, sling shots, and motor vehicles, to cause and attempt to cause bodily injury to African-Americans, specifically targeting those they believed to be homeless or under the influence of alcohol because they believed that such individuals would be less likely to report an assault. Additionally, the co-conspirators would often boast about these racially motivated assaults.

“We hope that today’s guilty pleas provide further closure to James Craig Anderson’s family and to the community that has mourned his senseless death and been further disheartened by the scope of the conspiracy to commit racially motivated assaults in Jackson by these and other co-conspirators,” said Thomas E. Perez, Assistant Attorney General for the Civil Rights Division. “The Justice Department’s focus in this matter is ongoing and broad; we will vigorously pursue those who commit racially motivated assaults and will use every tool at our disposal to ensure that those who commit such acts are brought to justice.”

http://www.fbi.gov/jackson/press-releases/2012/two-mississippi-men-plead-guilty-to-committing-hate-crimes-against-african-americans



Quote:
South Carolina Man Sentenced for Committing Federal Hate Crime Against an African-American Teenager
U.S. Department of Justice November 13, 2012

WASHINGTON—Chase McClary, 24, of Johnsonville, South Carolina, was sentenced today in federal court to four years in prison, followed by three years’ supervised release, for his racially motivated attack of an African-American teenager.

In June 2012, McClary pleaded guilty to violating the Matthew Shepard James Byrd, Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act by violently assaulting an African-American teenager. During his guilty plea, McClary admitted that in August 2010, he approached a 16-year-old African-American male and struck him numerous times with the jagged end of a broken coffee mug because of the victim’s race. The attack resulted in severe injuries to the victim’s head, face, and neck.

“The Department of Justice is committed to aggressively prosecuting hate-fueled acts of violence,” said Thomas E. Perez, Assistant Attorney General for the Civil Rights Division. “Today’s sentence makes clear that racially motivated attacks will not be tolerated in this country.”
http://www.fbi.gov/columbia/press-releases/2012/south-carolina-man-sentenced-for-committing-federal-hate-crime-against-an-african-american-teenager


Quote:
FBI: Hate Crimes Target Blacks In 70 Percent Of Race-Based Cases
11/15/11

Blacks were the group most likely to be the targets of race-based hate crimes, according to a new federal report.

The report, compiled by the FBI's civil rights division, found that the large majority of racial bias crimes were "motivated by anti-black bias." Latinos were the targets of 66 percent of all hate crimes motivated by ethnicity or national origin. Jews were the targets of most crimes against religious groups, and most crimes against a particular sexual orientation or gender were motivated by "anti-homosexual male bias."

The number of hate crimes remained essentially flat between 2009 and 2010. There were 6,628 hate crimes reported in 2010, up very slightly from 6,604 in 2009. About 47 percent of all the reported hate crimes were racially motivated...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/15/fbi-hate-crimes-target-bl_n_1095465.html


People like Sharpton don't have to manufacture race-based crimes, they go on all the time. They simply go unnoticed by white America, and, obviously, by people like you. And, if the black community doesn't make noise about them, they will continue to go unnoticed.
OmSigDAVID
 
  3  
Thu 15 Aug, 2013 12:22 am
@firefly,
Quote:
Freedoms and the means to maintain it is never a matter of economic...
firefly wrote:
http://media.caglecartoons.com/media/cartoons/125/2013/01/17/125743_600.jpg
Firefly, your cartoon represents some egregiously dishonest concepts
violently in conflict with known American history, as set forth
by the USSC in its D.C. v. HELLER 554 U.S. 570 of 2OO8
and re-affirmed in McDONALD v. CHICAGO 561 U.S. 3025 of 2O1O.
The Founders vocally supported freedom of each citizen
to bear arms, many, many times. To be un-armed was irresponsible,
like drunken driving today.

As to paranoia (was that coined by Sigmund Freud??), thay knew very well
that the King of England was a very real enemy, as were common
street criminals, Indians and animals. There were NO police
anywhere in the USA, until the following century.

Everyone was expected to take care of himself.
The history that u allege is liberal (meaning false).

The cartoon is so stupid that it represents
that better weapons are "ridiculous". Thay 'd have LOVED
to have had and used fully automatic weapons.
It falsely implies that the Founders wanted
to be limited to single shot muskets; nonsense.





David
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  4  
Thu 15 Aug, 2013 12:24 am
@firefly,
why should anyone care if the reason one person violates another is the color of their hat, the color of their skin, or the way they talk, or no reason at all?? It is the violation that is the offense. all of this trying to read the mind of the offender for motive is a irrelevant excursion into tea leaf reading.
OmSigDAVID
 
  3  
Thu 15 Aug, 2013 12:41 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
why should anyone care if the reason one person violates another is the color of their hat, the color of their skin, or the way they talk, or no reason at all?? It is the violation that is the offense. all of this trying to read the mind of the offender for motive is a irrelevant excursion into tea leaf reading.
Yes; your point is very well taken.





David
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Thu 15 Aug, 2013 04:10 am
Chicago is going to be or have close a large number of schools in the city and it is very likely that as a result children black children for the most part will likely end up dying.

All due to the gangs problems in that city as walking to school outside of the control of the local gang into foreign gang territories can be life threatening.

NPR did a report on Chicago safe passage program trying to keep these kids alive as they walk to school.

Now where is the outrage by Sharpton and Jackson? Where are the rallies demanding the breaking of these gangs and the safety of real smiling children?

Bet the deaths when they do occur of real innocent children will get far less national coverage then Zimmerman self defense killing of a hoodlum what to be.

We live in one hell of a sick society where fantasies of white racial guns nuts looking to kill innocent black children is all the rage, but real dangers to real children is below the radar screens as it only concern black on black crimes.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Thu 15 Aug, 2013 04:59 am
@firefly,
Quote:
Your lies about Trayvon Martin continue to get more and more outrageous.


And they are read and possibly believed by some people and you create the opportunity to have them disseminated.

Which I don't, as you can see, by my bringing economic motives into the discussion. That's a question being avoided. Does that not tell you something ff?

That is something that does not, as it ought, get much response.

What has Bill's personal life got to do with the case?
spendius
 
  2  
Thu 15 Aug, 2013 05:39 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
You gentlemen would had let Ireland faster then you let New Orleans after Jackson got done with you.


The "you" in that sentence is sneaky spin because it should read " a fraction of you" which was a long way from home and Jackson was in his own backyard. The whole "you" was busy in many other parts of the world and you have certainly not finished with it.

As the Romans found, if there are too many actions going on at the same time they lost all of them.

The Taliban seems to have got done with "you" in the sense of that fraction of the "you" which the US chooses to deploy against it.

What are the economic benefits of 300,000,000 guns in circulation? What are the costs? Shouting "freedom" and waving the flag about ill befits people who are undermining US economic progress. And they are undermining US economic progress, as a fact, if they can't show that the economic benefits of 300,000,000 guns not only outweighs the costs but by a sufficient amount to justify the deaths and injuries. As is the case with traffic's obvious economic disadvantages which strenuous efforts are made to reduce whereas the NRA's strenuous efforts go in the other direction.

The infrastructure is now laid out in such a way that rapid motoring is an economic necessity. Why are 300,000,000 guns an economic necessity? If they are not a necessity, and are a long way on the other side of the balance sheet, then the NRA might be seen, from an economic point of view, as a subversive organisation.

And there is only one other point of view which might be considered and it is the psychological. I think that 300,000,000 guns is on the minus side of that balance sheet as well.

And there's no freedom in sight in a discussion in which pertinent questions are run away from in order to be ready for the gentle lobs firefly is serving up.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Thu 15 Aug, 2013 06:58 am
@spendius,
Quote:
Your lies about Trayvon Martin continue to get more and more outrageous.
spendius wrote:
And they are read and possibly believed by some people and you create the opportunity to have them disseminated.

Which I don't, as you can see, by my bringing economic motives into the discussion.
That's a question being avoided. Does that not tell you something ff?

That is something that does not, as it ought, get much response.
What has Bill's personal life got to do with the case?
Your ideas are foolish.
Defense of your life (as Zimmy did) is un-related to acquiring money.





David
BillRM
 
  1  
Thu 15 Aug, 2013 07:15 am
@spendius,
Quote:
And they are read and possibly believed by some people and you create the opportunity to have them disseminated.


Lies such as police reports as to what was found on Trayvon phone for example?

Or what messages that was found on his phone and computer also by the police?

You know the same information that the prosecutor did not hand over to Zimmerman lawyers in a timely manner and who the prosecutor fired one computer expert for revealing?

The evidence that the computer expert is suing the prosecutor for firing him over revealing.

What lies as all I stated are a matter of public record but if you or Firefly would like to give details of those "lies" I will cheerfully give links to the information.

Zimmerman was a clear very trouble teenager and hoodlum in training that picked the wrong person to attacked that night.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Thu 15 Aug, 2013 07:27 am
@spendius,
Here the suit over the so call lies about poor innocent Trayvon.

Quote:


egrio.com/2013/08/06/angela-corey-faces-5-mil-whistleblower-lawsuit/

Trayvon Martin: George Zimmerman prosecutor Angela Corey makes GOP endorsement

Angela Corey, the controversial prosecutor at the center of the George Zimmerman trial, was served with a lawsuit Thursday by a former employee claiming he was unlawfully fired.

Ben Kruidbos, a former IT worker for the state attorney’s office, is seeking more than $5 million in damages from the Florida State Attorney’s office.

Kruidbos claims he was fired in retaliation for testifying at a June hearing, in which Zimmerman’s attorneys sought sanctions against prosecutors for withholding evidence – the evidence in question being unflattering photos taken from the cellphone of Trayvon Martin.

During the hearing, Kruidbos testified that he recovered images from Martin’s phone, including photos of jewelry, marijuana plants, and a hand holding a gun. The pictures and some texts would later be ruled inadmissible but became a point of contention in the trail as Zimmerman’s defense team claimed the evidence was withheld from them by the state until shortly before the murder trial began.

theGrio: Accused of overcharging, Angela Corey defends decisions in Zimmerman, Alexander cases

Kruidbos, through his attorney, informed Zimmerman’s defense team that the images existed. He would later explain in court that he felt compelled to do so saying, “All the information is important in the process to ensure it’s a fair trial” and that he feared he would be liable if he didn’t.

On the day jurors began deliberating in the case, Kruidbos received a six-page termination letter that slammed him for his actions. The Florida State Attorney’s Office, Fourth Judicial Circuit Managing Director Cheryl R. Peek called Kruidbos’ stated concern of possible liability “feigned and spurious” and “nothing more than shameful manipulation in a shallow, but obvious, attempt to cloak yourself in the protection of the whistleblower law.”

“Florida law provides whistleblower protection making a termination in such a circumstance ‘wrongful.’ Florida has taken the protection of the law a significant step further by making that conduct ‘unlawful’ if the individual testified pursuant to a subpoena. The lawsuit alleges that Corey’s office acted unlawfully,” said Kruidbos’ attorney, Wesley White, in a statement to theGrio.

Corey’s office will not comment on the lawsuit but has published Kruidbos’ termination letter on the State Attorney’s website in response.

Zimmerman’s defense team, led by attorney Mark O’Mara, is also seeking sanctions against Corey’s office. During the trial, they filed a motion against the prosecution claiming that evidence was withheld. Just Friday, at a luncheon in Orlando, O’Mara said to a crowd of attorneys, “I am not done with that motion. I’m not done with Angela Corey. And we are going to be seeing more of each other.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Thu 15 Aug, 2013 07:32 am
@spendius,
Here is the underage girls found on Trayvon cell phone another lie from the prosecutor own employee until he was fired for revealing the information that is.

Quote:

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/07/13/state-attorney-angela-corey-fires-information-technology-director-trayvon-martin

Kruidbos, who testified in a pretrial hearing in the Zimmerman case in June, said that he had reason to believe that additional information found in Trayvon Martin's cell phone had not been turned over to the defense. Kruidbos said more than 2,000 photos from the phone were not shown to defense attorneys, including pictures of underage naked girls, images showing piles of jewelry on Martin's bed and photos of Martin blowing smoke.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  0  
Thu 15 Aug, 2013 07:39 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
why should anyone care if the reason one person violates another is the color of their hat, the color of their skin, or the way they talk, or no reason at all?? It is the violation that is the offense. all of this trying to read the mind of the offender for motive is a irrelevant excursion into tea leaf reading.

I care if a crime is directed toward toward someone mainly because they are a member of a particular racial, religious, or ethnic group, or because of their sexual orientation. Not only is it a civil rights violation, in addition to being a criminal act, it is an act that is directed toward, and impacts, and serves to intimidate an entire group.

Punishing just the criminal act, does not serve to deter the intimidation or targeting of an entire group, and does not help to protect the civil liberties of that group, so I see the importance of these laws in their deterrent value.

There is no "tea leaf reading" or mind reading going on in the prosecution of these crimes--the bias clearly must be shown as the main determinant in the selection of the victim (the victim can be property as well as a person or a group). In the case I posted above, that involved a group of young men systematically attacking African-Americans, and eventually killing one, there was nothing subtle about the racial motive--the members of this group of attackers were quite open in talking about their selection of victims mainly on the basis of race, and mainly because their of anti-black feelings.

Similar crimes have gone on in my area against Hispanics, where people have cruised around looking for any Hispanic, or anyone who looks Hispanic to them, to attack. These are hate crimes, and, I believe, the element of hatred toward a group, and the targeting of victims from a particular group, raises the severity of the offense, and justifies punishment for the civil liberties violation in addition to punishment for the criminal offense.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Thu 15 Aug, 2013 07:49 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Here's the problem.....

You can see easily enough that we have a half dozen to a dozen or so people on A2K (which I'd not even classify as a leftist forum) who are living in some sort of an alternate reality in which the normal rules of evidence, logic, and any sort of an intelligent approach to fact finding or dealing with reality, are trumped by agendas and feelings.

The real question is, how common a thing is this, or how big is the actual iceberg which we're seeing the tip of? The impression I get is that we now have two competing information systems which are total paradigms in themselves and I know from science topic debates that the hardest thing there is in the world to do is to break through some total paradigm and convince anybody on the other side that their entire way of looking at reality is wrong.

You might want to look at some of those blogs on salon.com and the forum section on DU, but the thing which sort of gets to me is the structure of salon.com. An example:

http://open.salon.com/blog/ezili_danto/2013/07/20/for_trayvon_obama_a_day_late_and_a_dollar_short

The point is, that those people are throwing those kinds of screeds up against the wall, and the software operating the thing itself doesn't offer any scope for anything you might call a debate or anything like that or like you see on A2K or normal forums. I'd like to know how common THAT was and how many places you'd see that, outside of salon.com.

I mean, the Russian government right now is acting on the assumption that the United States is no longer a viable country and is going to split up and, on the off chance that they're wrong, it seems clear enough that, sooner or later, large numbers of people are are going to need to be deprogrammed somehow or other.




spendius
 
  1  
Thu 15 Aug, 2013 08:02 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Your ideas are foolish.
Defense of your life (as Zimmy did) is un-related to acquiring money.


Your ideas are ridiculous or they assume we all are as stupid as the audience you must have been addressing for a long time.

There's a trade off between lives and money everywhere you look although I imagine it wasn't much of a consideration in your occupations.

If you want to take it as a fact that Mr Z was defending his life I don't suppose there is anything anybody can do about that. Leaving it to the cops would have been less of a risk for him.
BillRM
 
  1  
Thu 15 Aug, 2013 08:14 am
@spendius,
Quote:
Leaving it to the cops would have been less of a risk for him.


You mean waiting for the cops to show up and hoping like hell you would still be alive by the time they do show up?
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Thu 15 Aug, 2013 08:30 am
@gungasnake,
gungasnake wrote:

Here's the problem.....

You can see easily enough that we have a half dozen to a dozen or so people on A2K (which I'd not even classify as a leftist forum) who are living in some sort of an alternate reality in which the normal rules of evidence, logic, and any sort of an intelligent approach to fact finding or dealing with reality, are trumped by agendas and feelings.


I certainly agree with that, Gunga...although I rather suspect we have a different set of people in mind.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  0  
Thu 15 Aug, 2013 08:46 am
@spendius,
Quote:
What has Bill's personal life got to do with the case?

As much as Trayvon Martin's personal life, and the pictures on his cell phone, have to do with the circumstances of his death.

BillRM is preoccupied with all sorts of personal details about Trayvon Martin that were not admissible as evidence at trial because they were totally irrelevant to his shooting. The defendant was George Zimmerman, it was his actions that were legally called into question, Trayvon Martin was not accused of any crime. He was not found guilty of any criminal act. And the verdict in this case made no determination regarding whether Martin was acting in his own self-defense vs an unjustified "attack" on Zimmerman--its limited focus was only on whether Zimmerman was legally justified in firing his gun because he felt an imminent threat to his life--which could have been the case regardless of who provoked the altercation and even if Martin was in the process of defending his own life, given the nature of Florida law.

Nothing on Trayvon Martin's cell phone, or in his school records, helps to explain or illuminate George Zimmerman's state of mind when he first spotted Trayvon, or why he needed to follow him, or how he felt when he shot him--Zimmerman knew absolutely nothing about Trayvon Martin, so those factors did not influence him. All Zimmerman saw was a black kid in a hoodie walking around and talking on his cell phone--and he had no idea what photos were on that cell phone, nor were those photos a factor in the events that influenced Zimmerman's behavior subsequently.

Trying to blame the victim is nothing new. BillRM blames rape victims for their own rapes frequently. But one does have to wonder why BillRM is so obsessed with the contents of a 16 year old dead child's cell phone, particularly regarding whether it contained photos of nude underaged girls--girls who simply might be Trayvon's age or a year or two older than he was--and photos that BillRM has never seen, or that have even been described enough to have any idea of actual content, and where no one knows how the photos got on the phone or who took the pictures. So why does BillRM care whether a dead 16 year old had girlie pictures on his cell phone, and why has BillRM repeatedly brought up child pornography throughout this thread?

Unlike the contents of Trayvon Martin's cell phone, which were truly private--he didn't make those things public, and they still aren't in the public domain, nothing I've said about BillRM reveals anything private--it's all material BillRM has posted about himself on a public internet forum, available for the world to see and read, and matters he has gone on at great length discussing, and matters that are directly related to the sorts of things he is choosing to demonize Trayvon Martin with. If Trayvon Martin is fair game for BillRM in that regard, BillRM should be fair game for equal scrutiny.

Simply because Trayvon Martin had the tragic misfortune of being a homicide victim, I don't think that gives people, like BillRM, a license to lie, and distort, and smear, that young man's character in a pathetic attempt to justify George Zimmerman's actions that night. BillRM is weaving his own fantasies that have nothing to do with the evidence presented at trial, or the laws the jury considered in reaching their verdict. And the sorts of descriptions that BillRM is characterizing Trayvon Martin with are mainly negative racial stereotypes about inner city young black men--stereotypes that really do not fit this particular teen, a high school junior, with absolutely no history of any anti-social, aggressive, or criminal activities, in his community. And, when BillRM has to resort to invading the privacy of that teen's cell phone, in some sort of perverse search for something to demonize him with, and to use to blame him for his own death, I really do find that sickening.

George Zimmerman was the defendant. George Zimmerman was the one on trial. Trying to turn reality on its head, by making Trayvon Martin the defendant, and judging him to be the guilty party, is just absurd--it was not the victim who was on trial here. This case was Florida as Zimmerman.
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Thu 15 Aug, 2013 09:38 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:
Leaving it to the cops would have been less of a risk for him.
He chose to defend his naborhood from burglary
by spying on potential burglars and calling the police on them,
as he did on the nite in question. Good fellow!!!





David
BillRM
 
  1  
Thu 15 Aug, 2013 09:53 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Zimmerman is the type that see someone in trouble will react at once and render aid and support.

A hell of a wonderful neighbor to have living near you.
 

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