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The State of Florida vs George Zimmerman: The Trial

 
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Mon 1 Jul, 2013 01:19 pm
@gungasnake,
gungasnake wrote:

http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/zimmerman-update-how-much-injury-is-required-before-self-defense-is-justified/

Quote:

Zimmerman Update — How Much Injury Is Required Before Self-Defense is Justified?

Apparently frustrated at Mr. O’Mara’s masterful performance on cross-examination (see Zimmerman Trial Day 5 – Analysis & Video – State’s own witnesses undercut theory of guilt for our analysis) Mr. de la Rionda asked, as if he meant it, whether all people have perfectly round heads or wasn’t it true that a person can have a bumpy or raised area of their head as a normal state of affairs, and not solely as the result of traumatic injury.

Was he trying to suggest that the normal appearance of Mr. Zimmerman’s skull included contusions, abrasions, lacerations, and blood trails? It was more than a little bizarre....

...In fact, the State had pounded on this theme of “Zimmerman’s minimal injury throughout the day, asking witnesses if they had observed Zimmerman to be staggering or unresponsive to communication (it must be said that more than one witness–State witnesses, mind you, all of whom were previously deposed by Mr. de la Rionda or a colleague, testified that Mr. Zimmerman had, in fact, complained of dizziness, etc.)

It seems that the State is attempting to establish in the jurors minds that Mr. Zimmerman could not have been justified in his use of deadly force in self-defense unless he had actually and already sustained life-threatening injury. If one accepts this notion, then the fact that Mr. Zimmerman’s injuries have (apparently) turned out to be transient may substantially attenuate his claim that his use of deadly force in self-defense was lawful.

(I say Mr.Zimmerman’s injuries were “apparently transient” because it may be many years before there are clinical symptoms of any brain injury resulting from the repeated blows to Mr. Zimmerman’s head by well-thrown punches and sidewalk cement. What is emerging from the NFL with regard to late-life brain damage among players who have suffered repeated blows to the head is not encouraging.)

Must You Wait for the Attacker’s Bullet to Strike Before You Act in Self-Defense?

The very idea that the State is seeking to establish–that self-defense is conditional upon actually suffering serious injury–is, of course, ridiculous on its face. The purpose of the law of self-defense, particularly in the context of the use deadly defensive force, is to be able to protect yourself from an imminent threat of death or grave bodily harm before that harm occurs, not to require that you actually experience death or grave bodily harm before you may act to protect yourself.

Under the conceptual framework being advanced by the State, if a man were to clearly state his intention to kill you, slowly remove a pistol from his desk drawer, point it at you, and pull back the hammer, you would be required to wait until he shot at you–indeed, until he actually hit you–before you would be entitled to use deadly force to protect yourself. After all, if you acted with the swiftness appropriate to the occasion and struck down your attacker before his bullet tore through your body you wouldn’t have so much as scratch to later show Mr. de la Rionda as justification for having used deadly force in self-defense.........



It is obvious that as Zimmy 's head was being beaten against the street,
he knew that the next impact had the potential
to significantly injure him, and he had the natural right
and the Constitutional right to defend himself
by killing the perpetrator, as quickly as possible
(even if he only had a little 9mm automatic).


Zimmy was lucky that a relatively anemic little 9mm round
was enuf to get the job done; shot placement counts for a lot.

I hope he 'll UPGRADE to some decent hardware
when the trial is over.





David
Baldimo
 
  2  
Mon 1 Jul, 2013 01:23 pm
@RABEL222,
I didn't realize that being followed was an excuse to start beating someone up.
Rockhead
 
  2  
Mon 1 Jul, 2013 01:23 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
in a fight that he (your boy Zimmy) started...
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Mon 1 Jul, 2013 01:28 pm
@Rockhead,
Rockhead wrote:
in a fight that he (your boy Zimmy) started...
No; that 's a lie.
Rockhead
 
  1  
Mon 1 Jul, 2013 01:30 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
we shall see, counselor...
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Mon 1 Jul, 2013 01:30 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:
I didn't realize that being followed was an excuse to start beating someone up.
People follow each other all the time.





David
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Mon 1 Jul, 2013 01:36 pm
@cicerone imposter,
one minute you want to appear objective and the next your projecting that everything Zimmerman says is a lie.
Lets all try to be consistent and follow the story more dispassionately. OK?
farmerman
 
  1  
Mon 1 Jul, 2013 01:43 pm
@BillW,
Quote:
Third camp - lean either way but are willing to listen to new evidence and debate it as it happens;
Id love to be part of that but, as it stands, theres very few (save you) who are even trying to be dispassionate about this story .Consequently, its like the progressives and conservatives. Each seems to only pay attention to things that validate their preconceived conclusions.
Some of us are playing ping pong with ourselves.

Im just here for the free kvetching.

I will soon tire of it and get back to work.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  2  
Mon 1 Jul, 2013 01:48 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:

I didn't realize that being followed was an excuse to start beating someone up.

According to Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law, Martin had a right to defend himself if he felt threatened.
Baldimo
 
  1  
Mon 1 Jul, 2013 01:57 pm
@DrewDad,
Did he feel threatened? From what I have heard, he thought it was a creepy as cracker. He didn't state he was afraid of said cracker.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Mon 1 Jul, 2013 02:11 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:
Did he feel threatened? From what I have heard, he thought it was a creepy as cracker.
He didn't state he was afraid of said cracker.
He seemed to be having fun,
applying his MMA skills,
until Zimmy gave him a one gun salute.
revelette
 
  1  
Mon 1 Jul, 2013 02:28 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
The only one with MMA skills turns out to have been Zimmerman.
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Mon 1 Jul, 2013 02:35 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:

Did he feel threatened? From what I have heard, he thought it was a creepy as cracker. He didn't state he was afraid of said cracker.


So, according to this, if you don't state your afraid, then you can't defend yourself. Total baloney as usual; not an element of the "Stand Your Ground" act. Just the same as because Zimmerman was scared shitless and just got beat up by a 17 year old doesn't give him the right to kill the kid!
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 1 Jul, 2013 02:55 pm
@farmerman,
Where did I state that everything Zimmerman said is a lie? WHERE?
What I did say was that the judge's instruction to the jury is that if they find the defendant has lied about anything, they can assume he/she has lied about any thing else.

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 1 Jul, 2013 02:58 pm
@Thomas,
That's one of the reasons I think the judge needs to have the jurors brought to the scene of the crime.

They can establish for themselves what the environment looks like - especially without stars or moon to provide any lights. It was cloudy - and raining.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Mon 1 Jul, 2013 03:04 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
a Zimmerman lack of credibility would not meet the states burden of proof.
since it does not appear that the state has a case it would be stupid to put zimmerman on the stand,
they should mount no defense at all.
A man with poor credibility has as much right
to defend himself from criminal violence as anyone else.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 1 Jul, 2013 03:07 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
You can't see the obvious; it was never determined it was anything like "criminal violence." That's your own imagination at work - and stupid like you!

The only "criminal violence" is shooting a minor dead with a gun.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Mon 1 Jul, 2013 03:17 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Thank you for the thread, firefly. I haven't said anything on it yet since I'm not intently following the trial, being more interested in some other world situations this week, my kind of attention deficit. The thread gives me a clue or two about the trial content so far, even an excess of discerning takes that disagree with each other.

I was an early one, maybe even the first on a2k to call Zimmerman a wannabe cop, and I still think that's why he went into action in what I take as an impulsive but unnecessary way. I don't yet have a take on what made him shoot. I might not be surprised if he doesn't have exactly either. I have some presumptions but leave room for the possibility that I may learn something more about why.
Re predictions, I remember saying I thought it was manslaughter, and still think that way. We'll see how the trial develops.

0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Mon 1 Jul, 2013 03:28 pm
@cicerone imposter,
The minor was beating Zimmy 's head against the street.
That is a crime.
For WHAT reason do u take an interest in his age??????
DrewDad
 
  3  
Mon 1 Jul, 2013 03:29 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:

Did he feel threatened? From what I have heard, he thought it was a creepy as cracker. He didn't state he was afraid of said cracker.

The adjective "creepy" pretty much implies a feeling of dread, so I'd say there's evidence that he felt threatened.

0 Replies
 
 

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