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The State of Florida vs George Zimmerman: The Trial

 
 
revelette
 
  1  
Thu 8 Aug, 2013 12:30 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Taking positions that undercut the legal system and even showing little respect for a jury verdict is wrong on many many levels.


Perhaps you didn't actually listen or read what he actually said concerning the verdict?


Quote:
The second thing I want to say is to reiterate what I said on Sunday, which is there’s going to be a lot of arguments about the legal issues in the case — I’ll let all the legal analysts and talking heads address those issues. The judge conducted the trial in a professional manner. The prosecution and the defense made their arguments. The juries were properly instructed that in a case such as this reasonable doubt was relevant, and they rendered a verdict. And once the jury has spoken, that’s how our system works. But I did want to just talk a little bit about context and how people have responded to it and how people are feeling.


source

0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Thu 8 Aug, 2013 12:37 pm
@Rockhead,
Quote:
Zimmerman speaks Spanish?


With his background I would assume so not that all the second/third generations of Latins do so.

All and all a poor target to try to paint as a white racist.

Quote:


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/29/trayvon-martin-case-georg_n_1387711.html

Soon however, it became obvious that sorting out racial dynamics in the death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin would not be simple. Police described the shooter, George Zimmerman, as white. His father called him a "Spanish speaking minority" with many black relatives and friends.

On voter registration forms, George Zimmerman identified himself as Hispanic, as did his mother. His father, Robert, listed himself as white on voter registration forms. Zimmerman's mother, Gladys, is originally from Peru.

Ethnicities in Peru run the gamut. Descendants of the original people or Amerindians of Peru, those who were under rule of the Inca empire, are the largest ethnic group, followed by those who are a mix of Spanish and Amerindian ancestry, also known as mestizos. Whites are about 15 percent of the population, followed by blacks, Asians and other groups. Class distinctions based on race and language persist in Peru, with whites at the top of the societal hierarchy and indigenous people often at the bottom, a vestige of Spanish colonialism.

Kay Hall, a former neighbor of the Zimmermans when they lived in Manassas, Va., said Zimmerman's mother spoke fluent English and Spanish but she's not certain if George Zimmerman or his brother spoke Spanish. She didn't remember Gladys sharing any stories about her life in Peru or seeing the family carrying out any traditional Peruvian cultural activities.

"I saw Hispanics, blacks, all kinds of people visiting over there," Hall said. "I don't think they had any kind of racial problems."

Rockhead
 
  1  
Thu 8 Aug, 2013 12:39 pm
@BillRM,
you assume a lot, billy...
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Thu 8 Aug, 2013 12:41 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
Zimmerman speaks Spanish?


With his background I would assume so not that all the second/third generations of Latins do so.

All and all a poor target to try to paint as a white racist.

Quote:


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/29/trayvon-martin-case-georg_n_1387711.html

Soon however, it became obvious that sorting out racial dynamics in the death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin would not be simple. Police described the shooter, George Zimmerman, as white. His father called him a "Spanish speaking minority" with many black relatives and friends.

On voter registration forms, George Zimmerman identified himself as Hispanic, as did his mother. His father, Robert, listed himself as white on voter registration forms. Zimmerman's mother, Gladys, is originally from Peru.

Ethnicities in Peru run the gamut. Descendants of the original people or Amerindians of Peru, those who were under rule of the Inca empire, are the largest ethnic group, followed by those who are a mix of Spanish and Amerindian ancestry, also known as mestizos. Whites are about 15 percent of the population, followed by blacks, Asians and other groups. Class distinctions based on race and language persist in Peru, with whites at the top of the societal hierarchy and indigenous people often at the bottom, a vestige of Spanish colonialism.

Kay Hall, a former neighbor of the Zimmermans when they lived in Manassas, Va., said Zimmerman's mother spoke fluent English and Spanish but she's not certain if George Zimmerman or his brother spoke Spanish. She didn't remember Gladys sharing any stories about her life in Peru or seeing the family carrying out any traditional Peruvian cultural activities.

"I saw Hispanics, blacks, all kinds of people visiting over there," Hall said. "I don't think they had any kind of racial problems."




Oh, I am sure Zimmerman would have been an equal-opportunity killer. If the kid he felt should not be there had been white...and decided he'd had enough of some jerk following him and decided to punch him...

...he probably would have shot that kid also.

The "racism" seems to be more from Zimmerman's defenders...and from Trayvon Martin's detractors.

Essentially, they are saying that the kid made some mistakes and besides which, he was black...so shooting him was no big deal.

The racism is here, Bill.
BillRM
 
  0  
Thu 8 Aug, 2013 12:43 pm
@Rockhead,
Quote:
you assume a lot, billy...


Not at all given his mother is Spanish speaking and his father claimed he is Spanish speaking not that it matter as far as his background is concern.
firefly
 
  1  
Thu 8 Aug, 2013 12:46 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Strange fear in placing a black man in the Whitehouse with their votes and it is not blacks who are becoming a larger percents of the population it is Latins you know the very group that Zimmerman in a member of, that you people did wish to throw under the bus..


Right, and after placing that black man in the White House, people, like you, aren't happy when he reminds you he's black and has suffered the effects of the sort of suspicions and fears that black men generate in our country, and in people like you, and like Zimmerman. You not only feel justified in unfairly smearing Trayvon Martin with your negative stereotypes of young black men--your latest was to claim this middle class kid was a gang member--you then perversely claim the President was admitting to being a "thug" when he shared his experiences and said he could identify with Martin. When all is said and done, even though you voted for him, you're not happy with the fact this President is black, and you're even less happy when he points out that he is.

No one threw Hispanics under the bus by demanding that Zimmerman be held legally answerable for his killing of an unarmed black minor inside a private gated community, where that minor had a right to be, as that child walked home from the store. This is more race-baiting on your part. Zimmerman's Hispanic heritage was totally irrelevant in this case--the issue is whether his victim was racially profiled, and how that might have contributed to his death. Zimmerman, in no way, represents the Hispanic community, but Martin does represent the black community, to the extent he was viewed as a person of "suspicion" mainly on the basis of the color of his skin.

White men are losing ground in this country, as far as controlling the reins of power is concerned. They are losing it to women as well as to minorities. This does pose a threat to them, and the so-called "traditional values" they represent--including the gun culture. Good grief, even homosexual marriages are now legal, who knows what cultural assaults they might face next. Will Spanish become an official language? Will women control Congress? Will "minorities" be controlling the laws that get passed?

You already don't like the influence women have shown in affecting the rape laws, and acceptable workplace behaviors, and you don't like the thought of any other groups imposing their imprint on our legal system or prevailing values, if those differ in any way from those that keep power in the hands of white men, like yourself.

Yup, C.I. is right, your fear is tangible.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Thu 8 Aug, 2013 12:47 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Oh, I am sure Zimmerman would have been an equal-opportunity killer. If the kid he felt should not be there had been white...and decided he'd had enough of some jerk following him and decided to punch him...


Punching him and then walking away, there is no reason to think he would not had live to be charge with assault.

Knocking Zimmerman down and then jumping on top of him is another matter and I would not for myself give a **** what Trayvon skin color happen to be either if I had him of top of me pounding away.
Rockhead
 
  3  
Thu 8 Aug, 2013 12:47 pm
@BillRM,
you put him in the Latin community, not me.

I try not to assign too many labels. it always makes it hard to get to the real truth...

I do call him a known liar.
BillRM
 
  -1  
Thu 8 Aug, 2013 12:57 pm
@Rockhead,
Quote:
I do call him a known liar.

\
An Trayvon as a proven hoodlum by his actions and the jury verdict.

The only victim is Zimmerman by both Trayvon and the state of Florida with the help of the Federal government.
firefly
 
  0  
Thu 8 Aug, 2013 01:11 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
An Trayvon as a proven hoodlum by his actions and the jury verdict.

Trayvon Martin was not the defendant. The verdict reflected nothing about his actions, or his character, let alone was any evidence presented to suggest that he was "a proven hoodlum"--he was little more than a body on an autopsy table during this trial. Trayvon Martin was not on trial--except in the racist minds of people like you.

The verdict simply found the jury in agreement with the possibility that Zimmerman actually feared for his life when he fired his gun. It reflected nothing more than that. It did not absolve Zimmerman of responsibility for creating and provoking the situation that led to the altercation, it did not even absolve Zimmerman of responsibility for actually starting the fight. And the jurors who have spoken out made that quite clear.

Just as your view of Trayvon Martin is largely based on your own fantasies, so is your view of the trial, and your interpretation of the verdict.

And the verdict certainly didn't prove that George Zimmerman isn't a liar. Anyone who watched and followed his bail hearing knows that he is.
Baldimo
 
  1  
Thu 8 Aug, 2013 01:19 pm
@firefly,
You are working under the assumption that Zimmerman started the fight. What marks were there on Martin showing Zimmerman started the fight? Following someone is not an excuse to start a fight. Martin threw the punches and was on top of Zimmerman, not the other way around.

Once again there is nothing fight provoking about being followed. Martin was an unknown in a neighborhood that he didn't live in.
revelette
 
  1  
Thu 8 Aug, 2013 01:29 pm
@Baldimo,
Zimmerman could have pushed him first, we don't really know how it started. But even so, a punch in the nose and a few abrasions on the back of the head, hardly deserve death in my opinion.

He didn't live there, but he was staying there with his father's fiancée and was returning to the place he was staying at when Zimmerman profiled him and followed him in the dark.

Should Trayvon Martin had waited to be attacked before defending himself from an unknown man following him the dark?

If someone was following me in the dark, I wouldn't wait to see what he wanted before either running away (which Trayvon tried to do as had been proven in court) or getting out of my purse some kind of defense weapon.

Guess 'stand your ground' was not an equal opportunity defense in the case of Trayvon Martin.
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Thu 8 Aug, 2013 01:36 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
Oh, I am sure Zimmerman would have been an equal-opportunity killer. If the kid he felt should not be there had been white...and decided he'd had enough of some jerk following him and decided to punch him...


Punching him and then walking away, there is no reason to think he would not had live to be charge with assault.

Knocking Zimmerman down and then jumping on top of him is another matter and I would not for myself give a **** what Trayvon skin color happen to be either if I had him of top of me pounding away.



Right!

And neither does the law.

And the check is in the mail.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Thu 8 Aug, 2013 01:38 pm
@revelette,
revelette wrote:

Guess 'stand your ground' was not an equal opportunity defense in the case of Trayvon Martin.


Because he was black.

These guys have to draw the line somewhere!
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Thu 8 Aug, 2013 01:43 pm
@Baldimo,
Quote:

Once again there is nothing fight provoking about being followed.

That's not true at all--being followed in the dark, particularly inside a private gated community, for no apparent reason, is definitely something that would provoke an emotional reaction of fear in the person being followed, particularly in a teenager--and we know (from Rachel Jeantel) that Zimmerman's actions frightened Martin. And a defensive reaction, including a punch, is a response to such fear. And what was most provocative was the fact that Zimmerman never identified himself or his motives to Martin. For all Martin knew, Zimmerman could have been a serial killer.

You know the fact that Zimmerman followed Martin provoked everything that occurred afterward--if Zimmerman hadn't followed him, Martin would have continued walking home. Martin had no interest in Zimmerman, or in having any sort of contact with him. His attention was focused on his phone conversation and making sure he got home in time to watch the NBA game. And there is no evidence to dispute that.

If you can't understand how Zimmerman's actions were provocative, it's no wonder you can't understand the negative reactions to the verdict. And if you can't understand that by now, there is no point in continuing to re-hash it. In the state in which I live, and in many other states as well, Zimmerman probably would have been found guilty of manslaughter, precisely because he recklessly provoked and initiated the entire situation--the totality of his actions brought about the fight and caused a totally unnecessary and needless death. Florida law allowed him to escape that accountability because of the way their self-defense laws are written.

0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Thu 8 Aug, 2013 01:51 pm
@revelette,
Quote:
Zimmerman could have pushed him first, we don't really know how it started


Zimmerman must be a very weak person to hit first and yet not leave a mark on Trayvon no matter how minor.

Quote:
Should Trayvon Martin had waited to be attacked before defending himself from an unknown man following him the dark?


Yes as in hell yes and he sure should not have attacked anyone for following him.

Oh take not he had a cell phone so if he feel any concerns he could have dial 911 himself.

Quote:
I wouldn't wait to see what he wanted before either running away (which Trayvon tried to do as had been proven in court) or getting out of my purse some kind of defense weapon.


Getting out a weapon would be very very very unwise to say the least

If the lady who gotten in my face on the home depot parking lot threatening to killed me had gotten out a deadly weapon for example I would had killed her where she stood.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Thu 8 Aug, 2013 02:07 pm
@revelette,
Quote:
He didn't live there, but he was staying there with his father's fiancée and was returning to the place he was staying at when Zimmerman profiled him and followed him in the dark.

And I also think it's entirely possible that, because Zimmerman was following him, and he was trying to dodge Zimmerman, that Martin may have become lost or confused about how to get back to where he was staying--he wasn't very familiar with that housing complex, all the townhouses look alike, and it was dark. He may have gotten off his familiar path in trying to lose Zimmerman, and that's why he couldn't get home more quickly or directly.

Zimmerman, who was very familiar with that complex, claimed he had to get out of his vehicle in order to get an address--if Zimmerman was unsure of where he was, it's a good bet that Martin, who wasn't that familiar with the place, became confused about how to get back to his father's fiancé's residence once he started to try to dodge Zimmerman to avoid him.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 8 Aug, 2013 02:15 pm
@firefly,
What's so fascinating about this case is that Zimmerman's memory about street names in that neighborhood (with only a few streets) were unknown to him. His lies won the day in court, because the prosecution failed to do its job.
BillRM
 
  -1  
Thu 8 Aug, 2013 03:09 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
What's so fascinating about this case is that Zimmerman's memory about street names in that neighborhood (with only a few streets) were unknown to him. His lies won the day in court, because the prosecution failed to do its job.


So he was lying/misleading the police as where he wished them to showed up for some reason?

Love to hear what theories you can come up with as to why he would do so.
firefly
 
  1  
Thu 8 Aug, 2013 03:54 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
So he was lying/misleading the police as where he wished them to showed up for some reason?


Your ignorance of this case is stunning--particularly for someone so staunchly defending Zimmerman's alleged total "innocence" in several threads on this site.

Had you any familiarity with this case, you'd know C.I. is referring to Zimmerman's likely lie to the police about the reason he had to get out of his vehicle. What he told the police--that he had to look for an address-- just wasn't credible. They didn't even find it credible.

No wonder you're engaging in so much fantasy about this case--you're unfamiliar with the actual case.

Zimmerman is just a useful excuse for you to promote the gun lobby/NRA party line. You clearly have no interest in this case otherwise. You're trying to transform a middle-class high school student, with loving, hard-working parents, and an older brother in college, into some cartoon version of an inner city "hoodlum thug" and his impulsive pursuer and shooter into an innocent victim who personifies the need to carry a gun, and to use deadly force, even when better judgment by the pursuer would have totally avoided those needs, and that high school kid's tragic and unnecessary death.

Beyond your promoting gun lobby/NRA propaganda, that hypes fears of crimes, and hypes fears of threatening black males, who when they aren't busy committing crimes, are threatening to riot, and planning to invade homes, and to just attack you, for no reason, as they walk home from a store with their Skittles and tea, you really have no interest in the Zimmerman case at all...you've turned Zimmerman into a cartoon too, in your gun lobby/ NRA comic book version of this case.

 

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