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The State of Florida vs George Zimmerman: The Trial

 
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Tue 6 Aug, 2013 10:15 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
The phone conversation that ended "get off of me", likely Martin's last words. You can dismiss that evidence if you want, but it was presented at trial.
BillRM wrote:
You mean the claimed content of that phone conversation by his girlfriend/friend as she remember it?

No wounds on Trayvon except for the gun shot and no indication he was ever on his back during this fight
unlike for Zimmerman. Strange if Zimmerman got on him to say the least.
That witness admitted, under oath,
to being a liar.
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Tue 6 Aug, 2013 10:21 pm
@RABEL222,
RABEL222 wrote:
Only one witness. Only one "provable" version of what happened.
So Flordia law forced the jury to it's decision. Not the jurys fault but the politicians and judges of Flordia
who passed this law making it possible to commit murder and get away with it.
Yes; that is the Florida law
that prohibits a criminal conviction without evidence.





David
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Tue 6 Aug, 2013 10:28 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
That witness admitted, under oath,
to being a liar.


She, in any case, have a dog in that race and did not come across as too truthful.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Tue 6 Aug, 2013 10:32 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:
I don't agree with that gunga. Those bastards
will take everything they can get their hands on.
They don't care who they take it from or what
it means to the people they are taking it from.
It is unlikely that bastardy
is a significant consideration
to the contemplated demografic.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Tue 6 Aug, 2013 10:42 pm

I am perplexed by any opposition to Stand Your Ground laws.
The opponents of those laws wish to protect violent criminals, correct??

Is that the theory in mandating that innocent victims of violent crime
RETREAT, rather than counter-attack the violent felon??????





David
gungasnake
 
  0  
Tue 6 Aug, 2013 10:58 pm
@engineer,
Quote:
The phone conversation that ended "get off of me", likely Martin's last words.


Do you actually believe that????
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Wed 7 Aug, 2013 05:08 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Is that the theory in mandating that innocent victims of violent crime
RETREAT, rather than counter-attack the violent felon??????


The strange thing is a duty to retreat if at all safety possible under the old self defense law would not apply in the Zimmerman/Trayvon case as unless Zimmerman is a mind reader he would have no way of knowing that Trayvon would assault him before he did so.

Once he was knocked down with the "child" Trayvon on top of him his ability to retreat was zero.

There is no duty not to annoy a hoodlum in case he might decided to attack you under the older self defense laws.

The whole subject of SYG is a smoke screen in this case.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Wed 7 Aug, 2013 09:09 am
Quote:
The Zimmerman Jury Told Young Black Men What We Already Knew
Cord Jefferson
7/13/13

Tonight a Florida man’s acquittal for hunting and killing a black teenager who was armed with only a bag of candy serves as a Rorschach test for the American public. For conservatives, it’s a triumph of permissive gun laws and a victory over the liberal media, which had been unfairly rooting for the dead kid all along. For liberals, it's a tragic and glaring example of the gaps that plague our criminal justice system. For people of color, it’s a vivid reminder that we must always be deferential to white people, or face the very real chance of getting killed.

When I was junior in college in Virginia, my then-girlfriend and I decided one night to meet up for a quick snack while studying for midterms. We bought some sandwiches at a 24-hour deli and, rather than waste time going to either of our homes, which were in opposite directions, we decided to eat in her car in a parking lot near a fancy hotel off-campus. We were listening to music and laughing about something when I saw a security guard’s headlights in the rear view mirror, and I stopped laughing as I watched him—a white man in his mid-40s—walk up to my girlfriend’s door and ask her to step out of the car. “Uh, OK,” she said, clearly as confused as I was about what we’d done to warrant his attention.

He walked her away from her car toward his, but they were close enough that I could hear their conversation. He asked her her name, a slight southern lilt lengthening his vowels. She told him. Then he said, “Are you OK? “

“What do you mean?” she said.

“Are you safe right now?” he asked again.

My girlfriend was white. I am not.

I leapt out of the car and screamed, “What the hell did you just ask her?” I wanted to see if he had the resolve to say it again, to me this time.

The security guard turned to face me. “It’s standard procedure, sir,” he said. “I was going to ask you if you were alright, too.”

“I think you’re lying,” I said.

“You can think what you’d like,” he said, a smile creeping up his face. “We can also call the police right now and sort this all out, because y’all aren’t supposed to be here and this is private property.”

I wanted to hit him in his ******* face. I wanted to take his flashlight from his belt and smash his teeth out, giving him a real reason to call the cops, a reason besides the crime of eating a sandwich in a parking lot.

But I was a 20-year-old brown kid in Virginia. It was late. I was with a white girl. I felt embarrassed, and the thought of being surrounded by more inquisitive white men with pepper spray and tasers and handcuffs and guns only made my face hotter. And so I apologized. “I’m sorry,” I said. “We didn’t know this was private property.”

“Well, now you know,” he said.

My girlfriend drove me home, where I stewed for hours and promised myself I’d report the guard in the morning. When I woke, however, I realized I didn’t have the guard’s name, nor did I even know what to report—it’s not against any rules to ask a white woman if the black man in the car with her is attacking her. It’s not against any rules to humiliate someone in a darkened parking lot in front of the person they love. It may, however, be against the rules to eat food in the parking lot in the first place. I never reported it. I think about it to this day.

It is a complicated thing to be young, black, and male in America. Not only are you well aware that many people are afraid of you—you can see them clutching their purses or stiffening in their subway seats when you sit across from them—you must also remain conscious of the fact that people expect you to be apologetic for their fear. It’s your job to be remorseful about the fact that your very nature makes them uncomfortable, like a pilot having to apologize to a fearful flyer for being in the sky.

If you’re a black man and you don’t remain vigilant of and obsequious to white people’s panic in your presence—if you, say, punch a man who accosts you during dinner with your girlfriend and screams “Nigger!” in your face, or if you, say, punch a man who is following you without cause in the dark with a handgun at his side—then you must be prepared to be arrested, be beaten, be shot through the heart and lung and die on the way home to watch a basketball game with your family. And after you are dead, other blacks should be prepared for people to say you are a vicious thug who deserved it. You smoked weed, for instance, and got in some fights at school (like I did)—obviously you had it coming. You were a ticking time bomb, and sooner or later someone was going to have to put you down.

To stay alive and out of jail, brown and black kids learn to cope. They learn to say, “Sorry, sir,” for having sandwiches in the wrong parking lot. They learn, as LeVar Burton has, to remove their hats and sunglasses and put their hands up when police pull them over. They learn to tolerate the indignity of strange, drunken men approaching them and calling them and their loved ones a bunch of niggers. They learn that even if you’re willing to punch a harasser and face the consequences, there’s always a chance a police officer will come to arrest you, put you face down on the ground, and then shoot you execution style. Maybe the cop who shoots you will only get two years in jail, because it was all a big misunderstanding. You see, he meant to be shooting you in the back with his taser.

Trayvon Martin is dead—and so many young men like him are dead or in prison—because in America it was his responsibility to take it. It was his responsibility to let a stranger with a gun follow him at night in his own neighborhood and suspect him of wrongdoing. It was his responsibility to apologize for being a black kid who scared people. It was not George Zimmerman’s responsibility to let a boy get home to his family.

http://gawker.com/the-zimmerman-jury-told-young-black-men-what-we-already-770650992

Baldimo
 
  1  
Wed 7 Aug, 2013 10:17 am
@firefly,
This is the worst part of this article:

Quote:
Trayvon Martin is dead—and so many young men like him are dead or in prison—because in America it was his responsibility to take it. It was his responsibility to let a stranger with a gun follow him at night in his own neighborhood and suspect him of wrongdoing. It was his responsibility to apologize for being a black kid who scared people. It was not George Zimmerman’s responsibility to let a boy get home to his family.


This is such bullshit it isn't even funny making up facts to support a false impression. Once again most black people are killed by fellow black people, it isn't the evil white man who is doing this to the black communities. The same is true for white communities, most white people are killed by fellow white people.

Martin didn't know Zimmerman had a gun and saying he did know is bullshit once again, plus this wasn't Martins neighborhood, it wasn't even his fathers neighborhood, it was his fathers girlfriends neighborhood.
firefly
 
  1  
Wed 7 Aug, 2013 10:34 am
Even a black man's statue can't escape being the target of racists...

Quote:
Jackie Robinson statue vandalized in Brooklyn
August 7, 2013

A statue of Jackie Robinson that sits outside a minor league ballpark in Brooklyn, N.Y. was vandalized with racial slurs overnight, according to multiple reports.

According to ABC's Aaron Katersky, someone defaced the Robinson statue between the end of Tuesday night's Brooklyn Cyclones game at MCU Park and Wednesday morning.

The statue was tagged with swastikas and racial slurs, 1010 WINS Radio reports. Workers could be seen trying to clean spray paint off the statue Wednesday morning.

Officials are hoping that surveillance video around the Coney Island ballpark will lead them to the vandals.

http://www.wjla.com/articles/2013/08/jackie-robinson-statue-vandalized-in-brooklyn-92428.html#ixzz2bIkTeY2L
Follow us: @ABC7News on Twitter | WJLATV on Facebook
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -1  
Wed 7 Aug, 2013 11:16 am
@Baldimo,
It was also Trayvon duty not to attacked anyone who annoyed him on the public streets and it was not Zimmerman that stopped him from walking home it was his own damn actions that did that.
firefly
 
  2  
Wed 7 Aug, 2013 11:42 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
It was also Trayvon duty not to attacked anyone who annoyed him on the public streets ...

His "duty"? As in black men should just suck it up when they feel white men are harassing them, by watching and following them for no apparent reason? So, Cord Jefferson, the author of the article I just posted was right--black men have to remain obsequious, otherwise they risk getting killed.

A strange adult had been stalking Trayvon Martin in the dark--the child had "a duty" to try to protect himself from someone who was menacing him. He had a right to defend himself.

Martin hadn't been following Zimmerman, Zimmerman had been pursuing Martin--like prey. That's not "annoying" behavior, it's threatening behavior, particularly to a child, particularly to a black child who sees a white man stalking him in the dark.

Quote:
it was not Zimmerman that stopped him from walking home...

That cannot be said in truth. Zimmerman did interfere with his walk home.

HAD ZIMMERMAN STAYED IN HIS CAR TRAYVON MARTIN WOULD STILL BE ALIVE.

You just can't stop attacking Trayvon Martin. It's not enough he's dead, you've got to keep trashing his reputation--even with lies.

What are you trying to prove? That everyone should be in fear of all young black males? Even those who are simply walking around and talking on cell phones, and not bothering anyone? So everyone needs a gun? Everyone should follow every black kid he sees because they might be "up to" no good? And, if one of those kids punches you in the nose for frightening/angering/profiling him, you should just shoot and kill him?







Baldimo
 
  2  
Wed 7 Aug, 2013 02:49 pm
@firefly,
How did Zimmerman stop Martin from walking home? It was Martin who threw the punch's, not Zimmerman. With the 3-4 minute gap in the timeline, it left Martin plenty of time to get to his dad's girlfriends house. Instead he thought it was ok to attack someone who he didn't know. Following someone is not a crime and is not something you have to defend against. We know it was dark, so we know Martin didn't know Zimmerman had a gun and stating anything else isn't supported by the evidence.

Martin didn't even live in the neighborhood so Zimmerman had every right to suspect someone who he didn't know from his neighborhood especially since that neighborhood had several break-ins leading up to the time of Martins shooting.

Martin would still be alive if he didn't swing on Zimmerman. Instead of waiting for or circling back on Zimmerman, Martin had at least 3 minutes to get home from where he was but instead he thought it would be ok to beat someone up who was following him. The evidence supports this. There is proof that Zimmerman was attacked and a witness who saw Martin slamming Zimmerman down on the ground. Once again the evidence supports this as well as Zimmerman's wounds.

None of this is related to race or racism and should not be used as a warning to black youth. What should be a warning to all youth is this: Don't start a fight with someone you don't know.
BillRM
 
  1  
Wed 7 Aug, 2013 03:05 pm
@Baldimo,
Quote:
Don't start a fight with someone you don't know.


Better yet do not start any fights.

If his parents had taught him that he would still be alive today.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Wed 7 Aug, 2013 03:09 pm
@Baldimo,
Quote:
None of this is related to race or racism and should not be used as a warning to black youth.


The sad part is that I think you actually consider that accurate, Baldimo.

Quote:

What should be a warning to all youth is this: Don't start a fight with someone you don't know.


If you are a young black male (or old one, for that matter) in the American south...you ought to learn how to say "Yessah, Massah boss" with sincerity...otherwise you may be shot to death for living while black.
BillRM
 
  1  
Wed 7 Aug, 2013 03:19 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
The sad part is that I think you actually consider that accurate, Baldimo.


Of course the racial aspects had been completely created out of thin air.

Quote:
If you are a young black male (or old one, for that matter) in the American south...you ought to learn how to say "Yessah, Massah boss" with sincerity...otherwise you may be shot to death for living while black.


Strange as the young black men who bodies are being piled up is for the most part in the northern cities and have nothing to do with white racist killers or the police for that matter.

But facts and reality should never interfere in a good story of evil white racists now should it??????
Baldimo
 
  2  
Wed 7 Aug, 2013 03:26 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank ever the racebaiter. Trying to make me say something I didn't say.

Quote:
The sad part is that I think you actually consider that accurate, Baldimo.


In fact I do. I don't think this had anything to do with race and have stated so many times. Did you miss the story about the black adult shooting the 17 year old white kid? I supported his use of self-defense as well. I hope I have given my kids enough information over the years to prevent this sort of thing from happening. My oldest just turned 16 a few weeks ago and nothing has changed.

Quote:
If you are a young black male (or old one, for that matter) in the American south...you ought to learn how to say "Yessah, Massah boss" with sincerity...otherwise you may be shot to death for living while black.


I have talked to my kids about Martin/Zimmerman case. I'm the father of 2 mixed race children and I gave them the same advice that my father gave me. Don't start fights, if you think someone wants to fight leave the area. They have been told more than once that they shouldn't start the fights, but if someone hits you first, you do your best to finish the fight. My youngest has taken Tae Kwon Do and guess what they teach you in those classes? You never start a fight, your skills are to be used for defense only.

By the way Frank I'm still waiting to hear about what your Police buddies have to say about the window yanking. It's been a few weeks so let me know when you are ready to speak about that one again.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Wed 7 Aug, 2013 03:31 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:
Don't start fights, if you think someone wants to fight leave the area.


How would you say this advice squares with SYG?
Baldimo
 
  2  
Wed 7 Aug, 2013 03:35 pm
@izzythepush,
It doesn't matter how it squares with SYG, I'm dealing with my children and situations where they would find themselves in a fight.
BillRM
 
  1  
Wed 7 Aug, 2013 03:43 pm
@Baldimo,
Quote:
It doesn't matter how it squares with SYG, I'm dealing with my children and situations where they would find themselves in a fight.


Beside the fact that the SYG laws have zero to do with the Zimmerman/Trayvon case.

But once more facts are beside the point here.
0 Replies
 
 

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