27
   

The State of Florida vs George Zimmerman: The Trial

 
 
gungasnake
 
  2  
Sat 3 Aug, 2013 10:46 am
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-HDA9WvQCJWc/UZKsbijdEiI/AAAAAAAAIbE/M2b8L4qjYTU/s1600/Trayvon.jpg
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sat 3 Aug, 2013 10:53 am
@gungasnake,
gungasnake wrote:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-HDA9WvQCJWc/UZKsbijdEiI/AAAAAAAAIbE/M2b8L4qjYTU/s1600/Trayvon.jpg


Actually, I did laugh at that, Gunga. It was funny!
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Sat 3 Aug, 2013 11:41 am
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:



I see. So you're not sure what something means, you just thought you should post something stupid anyway.

And you mean black people like Henry Gates, the black Harvard professor, who, I assure you, does not look anything like a gangbanger, who came back from vacation on the Vineyard and was profiled and arrested for "breaking into" HIS OWN HOUSE when he got back? I dont think he'd agree with you or the "artist" (who merely captioned a photo--that makes him an "artist"?)

Lier, Gates was arrested for being a dick towards an officer of the law, not for breaking into his house.
BillRM
 
  0  
Sat 3 Aug, 2013 11:56 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Lier, Gates was arrested for being a dick towards an officer of the law, not for breaking into his house.


I would had cheerfully provide ID to the police officer and been grateful that the police are being alert over protecting my property.

I remember when my wife home alarm went off by accident and the local police responding to the alarm got my wife and daughter in law away from me to check if I was not threatening them in any manner.

Have no problem with that at all as instead of me it could had been someone else that was posing a threat to their safety and well being.

Of course, being white I do not have a racial chip on my shoulder so I do not assume that all police actions are due to racism instead of normal police practices.

Footnote I do however think that in this case both the good professor and the police officer acted badly as the police officer should had eaten the insults once he knew that the man was the home owner.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Sat 3 Aug, 2013 12:00 pm
@BillRM,
I find it interesting when people mis remember facts in an apparent attempt to pump up their preconceived ideas....

I also find it interesting that then as now Obama is found to be hostile towards the decision making of the states first responders. as a proponent of massive state power this lack of faith in state agents gets in the way of his agenda.
firefly
 
  3  
Sat 3 Aug, 2013 12:02 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:

You are absolutely CLUELESS, Bill!

No, he's not clueless.

He's intentionally presenting a deliberately distorted version of what led to the shooting, and a deliberately distorted version of the two people involved, because he's not really interested in understanding what happened that night as much as he is in promoting pro-gun lobby/NRA propaganda.

He's defending his own racially biased viewpoints, his own need to carry a gun, which, of course, is bolstered by the thought of all these "black hoodlums" who might attack him, riot in the streets, invade his home, etc. and he's defending the flawed self-defense laws that encourage gun use and give legal cover even when shooting deaths were unnecessary and could have been prevented.

From his perch as a white man, he claims not to see the sort of covert racism and racial stereotyping that goes on all the time--particularly in our criminal justice system--and that affects and impacts the lives of black people all the time. All those black people, now marching and demonstrating to express their anger and dissatisfaction, have just been duped by race-baiting leaders, in BillRM's view--in other words, he sees the outrage of the black community as without legitimacy or merit--even when its given credence by the President of the United States, based on his own experiences as a young black male. And, naturally, he's not going to admit that racism in any way affects his perceptions or attitudes, even when it clearly does.

Racial fears help to stoke gun sales and the power of the NRA, the more people that carry guns, the more justified he feels in packing his "man card", and he promotes gun-carrying --as long as the people carrying those guns aren't law-abiding black men, or American Muslims, or women defending themselves from date/acquaintance rape, because he doesn't want to see those groups similarly "empowered". He can't even admit that a black male minor has the right to defend himself with a punch to the nose, after an armed stranger has stalked and confronted him in the dark, so he's not going to advocate that similarly menaced black males, a few years older, should be packing heat for their own self-protection. As long as black men use guns to kill each other, that's not a problem for him, and he's not going to support any gun-control measures that will stem the tide of guns, purchased by straw and shadow buyers, that flood into the inner cities. Why should anyone even be concerned about Trayvon Martin, according to BillRM, when young black men get killed all the time. He's already pronounced Martin another "hoodlum"--with "black" carefully left as the unspoken word--so, just add him to the body count, and stop making all this fuss--he got what he deserved.

Notice how BillRM crafts a portrait of Trayvon Martin based solely on innuendo, distortion, and exaggeration, with nothing substantial to back up any allegation that this teen was violent or criminal, or that he was anything other than a high school kid, simply returning from a trip to the store while yakking on his cell phone, when Zimmerman profiled, and followed, and frightened him, and disrupted his sense of safety.

Martin was not looking to commit a crime, or to assault anyone that night, he was going home to watch a basketball game. And nothing factual disputes that view. Had George Zimmerman not stalked him that night, in disregard of the rules of a Neighborhood Watch, because Zimmerman couldn't control his personal obsessions, or his impulses, Trayvon Martin would have made it safely home. Zimmerman profiled and stalked an innocent kid, and, in doing that, his errors in judgment led to a tragic needless death.

Notice how BillRM fails to address George Zimmerman's documented background of run-ins with the law, over aggressive offenses, his documented history of lying, even to his own lawyer and the court, as well as his over-zealous vigilance about "suspicious" black males in his housing complex, clearly revealed in the last several calls he had made to the police before the night he spotted Trayvon Martin.

Factual evidence about Zimmerman's character, and background, and questionable stability, are totally ignored by BillRM in order to promote a fictional narrative about Zimmerman's victim. How else can BillRM explain away how an unarmed minor, engaged in no wrong doing, gets shot and killed while walking home, yet Zimmerman is blameless, unless he ignores all that factual information about Zimmerman, as well as the fact that Zimmerman was menacing that minor by stalking him. BillRM does it by transforming Martin into some kind of lunatic, who is so easily unhinged, he savagely "attacks" and tries to kill someone for merely "annoying" him on a public street. It's interesting fiction, even if it doesn't jive with anything known about Martin, whose English teacher at his high school described him as "majoring in cheerfulness" and who, unlike Zimmerman, had no documented past incidents of violence.

Nor is there any mention, by BillRM, of the facts that Zimmerman was a trained fighter, and that the photos taken by the police the night of the shooting reveal he had only very minor injuries, not even requiring Band-Aids, let alone further medical treatment, which should certainly question the need for lethal force in response to a punch in the nose from an unarmed person--a punch which apparently caused little damage beyond a brief nosebleed. BillRM won't acknowledge any questions about Zimmerman's credibility, or judgment, or impulse control, questions even the jurors had, and have voiced, because the scenario of an "innocent" Zimmerman "attacked" by a "hoodlum" feeds into the fears the NRA thrives on, and BillRM is not about to let any nasty facts interfere with the spreading of propaganda to help support that view.

This isn't BillRM being "clueless", it's propaganda--it's designed to obscure very real, and troubling, questions about Zimmerman's credibility, judgment, emotional stability, and his need to use lethal force that night--because it's in the interests of the gun lobby/NRA to obscure all that, and BillRM is a loyal soldier in defending those interests. He defends Zimmerman because he has previously said, "We are all Zimmerman." Really? I hope not.

Whether or not one gives Zimmerman the benefit of the doubt, regarding self-defense, the troubling questions about him, and about his actions that night, still remain--and both jurors who have spoken out have raised such questions, and both of them displayed emotional distress about the verdict they had to arrive at, given the way the Florida's self-defense laws are written--one juror has said the laws should be changed, and the other has said he has gotten away with murder. But BillRM will continue to insist this jury found Zimmerman "innocent" when that appears to be far from the truth.

He's not "clueless"--he's happily, and deliberately, slandering the character and memory of an innocent black high school kid, on the basis of his own racial profiling, in order to defend a gun-toting vigilante, with a documented history of aggressive behaviors, as well as a history of lying and concealment in legal matters, because it's all about supporting a fellow gun-owner, and spouting the NRA party-line. He's very consciously promoting propaganda and bias.

http://rackjite.com/wp-content/uploads/r61613zimm.jpg






0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -1  
Sat 3 Aug, 2013 12:07 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
I find it interesting when people mis remember facts in an apparent attempt to pump up their preconceived ideas....


I had a black coworker that was sure the bad service he received at Denny from time to time was due to his race.

My pointing out that I also had gotten very bad service at Denny from time to time did not change his mind as he was sure that the reason and the only possible reason for the poor service must be his skin color.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Sat 3 Aug, 2013 12:15 pm
@BillRM,
people tend to see what they want to see Bill, it takes education and a strong stomach to overcome the tendency towards bias. most people never come close.
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  3  
Sat 3 Aug, 2013 12:19 pm
Of course being white, you don't have a reason to have a chip on your shoulder.




Quote:
Still, the situation essentially remained unresolved with dueling versions about what happened and passionate disagreement among supporters of both men. The committee investigating the arrest, led by Chuck Wexler, executive director of the Police Executive Research Forum, was left to sort it all out. At the start of the investigation, Wexler said he was doubtful that there were any lessons to be learned.

"There was a certain degree of skepticism," he said. "People on the committee had preconceived ideas about what they thought happened. What really began to happen was we kind of put that aside, and we had to get at the facts."

The committee titled the report "Missed Opportunities, Shared Responsibilities" because "both of the individuals contributed to the outcome unintentionally. Both had opportunities to try to ratchet down the encounter," Wexler said. "They were both looking at the same set of circumstances from different perspectives. They both had a certain degree of fear of each other."

The committee offers 10 recommendations for diffusing that fear, including encouraging police departments to offer training in how to de-escalate tensions when officers are not in danger, which Crowley did not do. Law enforcement officials should also take a hard look at cases where the only victim in a disorderly conduct charge is the police officer, as opposed to cases in which the arrested person had other victims, the committee said.

The report suggests that Crowley could have calmed Gates after he saw proof of the professor's residency and "taken greater pains" to explain the dangers of responding to a possible crime-in-progress.

Gates said that he would not have done anything differently -- except not follow Crowley out of his house, where he was arrested. The committee said Gates could have spoken to Crowley "more respectfully" and should have stepped outside of his home at the beginning of the encounter, as Crowley requested.

Neither Gates nor Crowley has responded to requests for interviews about the report. Gates's lawyer Charles Ogletree, a Harvard law professor and expert on civil rights, released a book on the topic last month titled "The Presumption of Guilt: The Arrest of Henry Louis Gates and Race, Class and Crime in America." Ogletree determined that "the issues of race, class and crime were ever present" and included an epilogue with the stories of 100 prominent black men who have experienced racial profiling.

"To say that both gentleman could have handled it differently ignores the issues of power and control and authority," Ogletree said of the report. "Gates could not control the situation. The officer did."

source

firefly
 
  2  
Sat 3 Aug, 2013 12:36 pm
@revelette,
Quote:
Of course being white, you don't have a reason to have a chip on your shoulder.

And, of course, being white they don't see any need to view situations from the black point of view, or to even listen to the experiences of blacks so they can understand their point of view.





0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -1  
Sat 3 Aug, 2013 12:44 pm
@revelette,
Quote:
Of course being white, you don't have a reason to have a chip on your shoulder.


Still does not mean that chip is justify in many many cases.

As far as I can see both men could had acted badly with the home owner starting the bad behaviors not the cop.
BillRM
 
  1  
Sat 3 Aug, 2013 01:16 pm
@BillRM,
Sorry I meant both men did acted badly beginning with the homeowner.

I just can see the man thinking how dare this at best middle class police officer be challenging me an important professor on my own property.

It must be due to my skin color and I will give him a peace of my mind.

From there is was all down hill as the police officer acted as a human being more then as a profession officer.

However the race came into the equation from the home owner, in my opinion, as I question if the police officer would had care about the skin color of who was disrespecting him.
firefly
 
  2  
Sat 3 Aug, 2013 03:55 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
However the race came into the equation from the home owner, in my opinion...


So, you see no legitimacy to the anger of black men when they feel they have been unfairly profiled--and suspected of trying to burglarize their own homes? Do you have any idea of what Henry Gate's previous life experiences with profiling, or discrimination, or racism, might have been, that caused him to react that way? Beside the fact that he was returning home from a very long trip, only to find his front door jammed, and then, after successfully managing to get into his house, he's confronted by a police officer on his doorstep and suspected of being a burglar. I'm not sure this illustrious professor didn't have some reason to feel that, no matter how accomplished and respected a black man might be, that he still couldn't escape the possibility of racial profiling.

Why do you think that, in a Washington Post-ABC News poll, 87 percent of African Americans said Martin’s shooting was unjustified, and 86 percent disapproved of, or disagreed with, the Zimmerman verdict in two other polls, while a slim majority of whites (51%) agreed with the verdict, and only 30% disapproved? Didn't all these people witness the same trial?

You really can't understand that race shapes how a person perceives and reacts to events, because of differences in life experiences, cultural histories, treatment within society, and the perpetuation of stereotypes, all based on race. And yours are shaped by being white.

You don't understand that being white affords you the luxury of not having to be constantly consciously aware of your skin color--a luxury that blacks cannot afford to indulge, they are constantly reminded of their skin color, in all sorts of ways.

If you can't understand why African Americans overwhelmingly (86%) disagreed with, or disapproved of, the Zimmerman verdict, or why 78% of them thought that the case raised racial issues that need to be addressed (while only 28% of whites felt that way), it simply means you are so blinded, by your own white male perspective, you cannot understand any other vantage point, or its legitimacy, and you'd rather deny racism than actually try to grapple with it.

Of course it's black Americans who more often raise racial concerns--they have to, otherwise whites will simply go on ignoring them or denying them. And, since blacks are on the receiving end of these racial concerns, they've got to keep beating the drum until those concerns are addressed.

And one concern in the black community is the racial profiling of young black men--the sort of racial profiling of Trayvon Martin that's coming from you, and oralloy, and gunga, in this thread, and that was going on in George Zimmerman's head the night he profiled, and followed, and killed, Trayvon Martin. And that's why 87% of African Americans think this shooting was unnecessary--they know that what happened that night, with the death of this teen, should never have happened, and would never have happened, except for the color of his skin.

George Zimmerman profiled and pursued an innocent kid because he was black, and that blackness made all of his actions appear suspicious and sinister to Zimmerman. A kid walking home from the store, with candy and a soft drink, simply meandering about as he talked on his cell phone, was transformed into possibly being "high on drugs", suspiciously looking at houses, and being "up to" something because he was walking slowly. Why? Because George Zimmerman was on the lookout for black criminals, and that put Trayvon Martin in the wrong place to be, at the wrong time, for a kid with black skin, even a kid who wasn't bothering anyone, or doing anything at all wrong, and who belonged behind the gates of that community.

When an unarmed black minor is profiled, and tracked, and subsequently killed, on a simple trip back from the store, and the police don't even make an arrest until there are public demonstrations and protests, and then the killer isn't even held accountable for recklessly creating the provocative conditions that led to that death, because flawed self-defense laws provide him with a get-out-of-jail-free card, I'm not at all surprised that 86% of African Americans disagree with the verdict and 87% felt the shooting was unjustified. I'm surprised the percentages weren't even higher.

You clearly don't understand what it's like to be a black man in America, nor do you seem interested in trying to understand it, you just want these black folks to shut up and stop making such a big fuss over race. After all, race is no big deal to you at all....
BillRM
 
  1  
Sat 3 Aug, 2013 04:33 pm
It kind of fun Firefly to wonder/guess what bullshit you are posting now that I have you on ignore.

Let see my guess is that no police officer would have checked out someone breaking into a home or a car that was not a black person therefore the cop in question must be a racist.

And or no police officer would had lost his cool in being disrespected by a non-black person so once more he must be a racist.

Just as Zimmerman would not had try to have a non-black kid walking slowly in the rain scoping out the homes checked out.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Sat 3 Aug, 2013 04:47 pm
@BillRM,
It's just as well you ignore it, because it's way over your head. Now you've got a legitimate reason for not understanding what she's posted.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  -2  
Sat 3 Aug, 2013 05:02 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Why do you think that, in a Washington Post-ABC News poll, 87 percent of African Americans said Martin’s shooting was unjustified, and 86 percent disapproved of, or disagreed with, the Zimmerman verdict in two other polls....



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_control

Quote:

Mind control (also known as brainwashing, coercive persuasion, mind abuse, menticide, thought control, or thought reform) refers to a process in which a group or individual "systematically uses unethically manipulative methods to persuade others to conform to the wishes of the manipulator(s), often to the detriment of the person being manipulated".[1] The term has been applied to any tactic, psychological or otherwise, which can be seen as subverting an individual's sense of control over their own thinking, behavior, emotions or decision making.

Theories of brainwashing and of mind control were originally developed to explain how totalitarian regimes appeared to succeed systematically in indoctrinating prisoners of war through propaganda and torture techniques......


At the end of WW-II, similarly large majorities of Germans thought that Adolf Hitler had been treated unfairly. For that reason, the allied powers instituted a program of "Denazification":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denazification

Quote:
Denazification (German: Entnazifizierung) was an Allied initiative to rid German and Austrian society, culture, press, economy, judiciary, and politics of any remnants of the National Socialist (Nazi) ideology. It was carried out specifically by removing those involved from positions of influence and by disbanding or rendering impotent the organizations associated with it. The program of denazification was launched after the end of the Second World War and was solidified by the Potsdam Agreement.


Hopefully, when the US democrat party is finally outlawed and banned, some similar policy will be devised.

0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  -2  
Sat 3 Aug, 2013 05:06 pm
The Nazi version of Trayvon Martin:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horst_Wessel

Quote:
Horst Ludwig Wessel (October 9, 1907 – February 23, 1930) was a German Nazi Party activist and an SA-Sturmführer who was made a posthumous hero of the Nazi movement following his violent death in 1930. He was the author of the lyrics to the song "Die Fahne hoch" ("The Flag On High"), usually known as Horst-Wessel-Lied ("the Horst Wessel Song"), which became the Nazi Party anthem and, de facto, Germany's co-national anthem from 1933 to 1945. His death also resulted in his becoming the "patron" for the Luftwaffe's 26th Destroyer Wing and the 18th SS Volunteer Panzergrenadier Division during World War II.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a9/Bundesarchiv_Bild_146-1978-043-14%2C_Horst_Wessel.jpg/220px-Bundesarchiv_Bild_146-1978-043-14%2C_Horst_Wessel.jpg
gungasnake
 
  -2  
Sat 3 Aug, 2013 05:37 pm
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-rxZjdCx1grg/UZWGX3v5QlI/AAAAAAAAIbg/GdM9t4qY61Y/s640/Once-Upon-a-Crime.jpg
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  0  
Sat 3 Aug, 2013 06:07 pm
CBS DC area poll, 83% agree with Zimmerman verdict.

http://washington.cbslocal.com
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Sat 3 Aug, 2013 06:41 pm
@gungasnake,
Quote:
The Nazi version of Trayvon Martin:


Come on Trayvon was just a hoodlum what to be that picked the wrong Latin man to attacked ending his hoodlum dreams.
 

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