The State of Florida vs George Zimmerman: The Trial

@farmerman,

Quote:

Do you have any evidence that Zimmerman committed manslaughter?

farmerman wrote:

Another fatuous statement/question.

Come on Farmer, Professor.
Do u think it helps the debate to offer un-solicited
off-topic assessments of intelligence??

farmerman wrote:

ITS the responsibility of the judge and the prosecution to make sure that the two deliberation outcomes
were presented in an understandable fashion to the jury.

Gee, Farmer, up until now I 'd thawt that it was the judge 's responsibility to remain neutral and impartial,
but now from your post, I see that its his job to go into partnership with the prosecution attorneys
and to gang up on the defendant. Thanx for clearing that up.

David

0 Replies

@farmerman,

DAVID wrote:

However, Zimmy 's enemies are so intensely, fanatically,
emotionally pro-black and anti-white that reason matters not at all to them,

farmerman wrote:

Your are so full of ****.

No, I went for a dump about 1/2 an hour ago,
but thanx for your scatological interest, Professor.

farmerman wrote:

Id plumbed the entire spectrum of opinion during the case and I am of the opinion that you and oralloy and Gunga are spoon fed your talking points from Krauthammer and Hannity. Everything you've all been saying had been pre digested for your uptake in various news shows on FOX.

Farmer, your assumptions arr un-founded and false.
I have not listened to either of them for a minute, nor
for any fraction of a second since the trial began.
My observations are 1OO% sua sponte.

I was saddened to see that O'Mara did not use my favorite argument
in his summation to the jury, to wit:
that Zimmy knew that the police were approaching
because he called them himself and he was not likely to commit
a felony with those police (possibly) observing him in the fight,
along with all of the nabors, both inside looking thru windows
and ambient nabors outside taking however many pictures (movies)
with their cell fones. I shud have called him n told him that,
but I did not anticipate this obvious omission. Zimmy shud have had a better lawyer
and a better gun. I don't approve of puny little 9mm Kel Tecs,
but defensive personal armament is a matter of taste.

I am saddened that u believe that I am so stupid
that I cannot come up with original ideas nor observations,
that I need journalists to find concepts for me.

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

You are talking like Zimmerman. You've had martin on trial here and because of the "Code talking" that anumber of you are engaged in shows me that, sadly, we have a long way to go to attain equality in this country.

Quote:

No, I went for a dump about 1/2 an hour ago,
but thanx for your scatological interest, Professor

Apparently your mind is one big coprolite.

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@farmerman,

Quote:

You are talking like Zimmerman. You've had martin on trial here and because of the "Code talking" that anumber of you are engaged in shows me that, sadly, we have a long way to go to attain equality in this country.

Farmerman I know you would had die before defensing yourself from an attacked by a young black male but unlike you most of us are color blind and does not care what the hell the color of the skin of someone trying to killed us.

If Trayvon had live he should had been on trial for assault and perhaps attempted murder.

As far as Zimmerman is concern he was found innocent by a jury of all charges and in my opinion should never had been charge in the first place as no matter what the skin color of his attacker he did nothing but exercise his rights of self defense.

footnote you could also had thrown in a few charges against Trayvon for having naked pictures of underage girls on his cell phone.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

You are talking like Zimmerman.

I guess that 's OK.
He seems to be a fine man (better than me).
I see nothing rong in talking like him.

farmerman wrote:

You've had martin on trial here

Poor Zimmy has been prosecuted and persecuted
because of his successful defense against a black
when the latter perpetrated attempted murder upon Zimmy.
The perp is correctly on trial in the court of public opinion,
wherein I am one of the judges.

farmerman wrote:

and because of the "Code talking"

What 's that, Farmer?

farmerman wrote:

that anumber of you are engaged in shows me that, sadly,
we have a long way to go to attain equality in this country.

Nothing is equal to anything else, Farmer
(except in the abstract world of ideas).
Even identical twin brothers have differences.
I can live with that.

David

0 Replies

@revelette,

revelette wrote:

It doesn't matter if it happened after he exited the car (I really don't know that) the point is that the dispatcher knew Trayvon Martin was running when the dispatcher told Zimmerman that they didn't need him to follow Trayvon Martin. So Zimmerman didn't need to keep tabs on Trayvon Martin.

The period where he was keeping tabs on Trayvon is before the dispatcher said they didn't need him to do that.

revelette wrote:

oralloy wrote:
The shooting took place a good three minutes later, but it was still in the same area Zimmerman was in when they said they didn't need him to pursue.

So what did Zimmerman do, just stand still for three minutes?

You're asking me to speculate? I speculate that he tried to find a street address so that he could direct the police to his location.

revelette wrote:

I thought you guys claimed that Trayvon Martin hid in the bushes and jumped out at Zimmerman. So how did he do that if he was running away at the time of the 911 call from Zimmerman? One presumes that Trayvon would have been in front of Zimmerman running away, what did he do, circle back and get in front of Zimmerman and hide behind (non existing) bushes and jump out at Zimmerman three minutes after Zimmerman hung up from the call while Zimmerman just stood still or walked slowly to be still in the same place he called from? How would Trayvon Martin know that Zimmerman would stop following him and start walking back to his car? How would he know to circle back and get in front of Zimmerman to hide behind bushes?

Exactly what Trayvon did I am unsure of. Him ending up at Zimmerman's position does not seem consistent with him running away however.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

oralloy wrote:
The prosecution was hampered by the fact that there is no evidence that Zimmerman committed any crime.

There was significant evidence that Id been able to extract from taking a non-position while listening to all on this thread.
The prosecution had a pile of evidence that's already been discussed. The fact was that the prosecution was sending out "beach balls" and missed several key areas of FACT and evidence.

Theres a significant difference between what is and whats been attempted to present.

It is indeed strange how you are never quite able to say what any of this supposed "mystery evidence" is.

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

oralloy wrote:
Do you have any evidence that Zimmerman committed manslaughter?

Another fatuous statement/question.

On the contrary, the fact that there is no evidence indicating manslaughter is quite pertinent when it comes to the question of whether someone should be convicted of manslaughter.

farmerman wrote:

ITS the responsibility of the judge and the prosecution to make sure that the two deliberation outcomes were presented in an understandable fashion to the jury. This , apparently was not done.

I doubt that it wasn't done.

But it seems a moot issue regardless, as it is pretty clear that there is no evidence that Zimmerman committed manslaughter.

0 Replies

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

If youre too lazy to seek out the facts and just want to make broad statements ID recommend you start another thread and call it "Mythos of Zimmerman as seen by David and me".

The fact that there is no evidence to back up any of your claims does not mean I am too lazy to seek out facts.

I'm afraid I have to decline your implied request that I stop pointing out that there is no evidence for anything that you are claiming. It is important that people not be falsely accused.

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

Your are so full of ****. Id plumbed the entire spectrum of opinion during the case and I am of the opinion that you and oralloy and Gunga are spoon fed your talking points from Krauthammer and Hannity. Everything you've all been saying had been pre digested for your uptake in various news shows on FOX.

Fox must look on it as a source of great honor that every time someone on the Left is confronted by facts, Fox is blamed for providing those facts.

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@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

I hope that u will forgive my (repetitive) redundance
in pointing out that blacks kill each other every day of the week
without anyone getting excited about it (Sharpton is silent; Jesse Jackson is quiet).

I guess when you don't bother to check facts you feel you can just make up your own.

Quote:

The Rev. Al Sharpton is calling for a high-profile community summit to address black-on-black violence after Harlem was rocked by a wave of shootings over Memorial Day.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/rev-al-sharpton-talk-violence-black-neighborhoods-article-1.292142#ixzz2ZPRCn8oQ

Quote:

Jesse Jackson rallies to stop black-on-black carnage

For Jackson, who turned 70 in October, ending the black-on-black carnage in this country could be his last big campaign.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/opinion/forum/story/2012-06-12/jesse-jackson-gun-violence-marches/55527742/1

1 Reply

@parados,

Quote:

I guess when you don't bother to check facts you feel you can just make up your own.

Still the facts are that in the city of Chicago alone over 700 young black men had been killed since Trayvon death and all repeat all of those young men all together had have far far far less press coverage and expressed concern by the civil right movement then the Trayvon killing generated.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Look who we're trying to have a discussion with, a ten year old who hasn't grown up yet in years and our native tongue.

Quote:

Farmerman I know you would had die before defensing yourself from an attacked by a young black male but unlike you most of us are color blind and does not care what the hell the color of the skin of someone trying to killed us.

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@BillRM,

Really Bill? Sharpton moved to Sanford like he is moving to Chicago?

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so the parents are all over networks today saying that they want vengeance for their kid and they dont understand why they have not gotten it.....I betcha they did not mention the law even once, In victim culture what victims and their advocates want is supposed to trump everything else. the bitch here though is that nobody really knows if martin was a victim, because nobody but zimmerman knows what happened.

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for all we know this event at base might have been martin making the mistake of attacking someone who had a gun, and who had the legal authority to use it on martin. that would disqualify martin and his advocates from using the victim label for him.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Quote:

So if you see a kid in the rain looking at homes and going off the sidewalk to do so and you think he might be up to no good that is racial profiling?

Why would you think he was up to no good?

Why wouldn't it occur to you he might be lost and looking for a house number?

Why wouldn't you drive over and ask him if he needed help?

Because he was black? Because you had already decided he was one of those "f--king assholes" based on his skin color?

Quote:

An if you are unhappy the police is taking their time in showing up...

What was the hurry? It was the police non-emergency number he called, because this was not an urgent mater. There was no criminal activity going on--not even trespassing. Why can't one just sit in the car and wait for the police in that situation...

Quote:

He have every right and business to keep following if he care to do so...

What makes it his "business" to follow anyone--that's not a function of a neighborhood watch.

What gives him the "right" to follow, and frighten, a child, in the darkness of night--his racial profiling of the kid? His personal obsessions with "f--king punks"? He has no "right" to stalk or menace.

Quote:

Nor is any of this a license for Trayvon to attacked him...

Why is a defensive reaction from a frightened child an "attack"? Zimmerman never identified himself, or what he was up to. He provoked a justifiable fear in Martin by watching, following, and confronting him. Martin's reaction in such a situation would not be an "attack" it would be a defensive response to a deliberate provocation by Zimmerman.

Quote:

nor did any of this take away Zimmerman rights of self defense...

In the state I live in, and many other states as well, Zimmerman would not have the right to shoot someone in a response to a punch in the nose, and, beside the two tiny scrapes on the back of his head, Zimmerman's face and body showed no signs of trauma beyond a single blow to his nose that, as far as anyone knows, didn't even result in a nasal fracture. When the blood was wiped away, Zimmerman didn't even look like he had been in a fight. He didn't even have a goose-egg anywhere on his head the next day from the alleged head pounding.

It was Martin who had, not only the right of self-defense, but the credible fear for his life, because the man who had been stalking him had a loaded gun. And what makes you think Martin had not seen the gun before he defensively punched Zimmerman? What makes you think the alleged altercation was not just a struggle over that gun--with Martin just trying to disarm this person who was threatening his life? That would explain why Zimmerman wasn't punched up--Martin was trying to disarm him, not beat him up.

Quote:

The only one who was at fault for Trayvon death was Trayvon no one else except maybe his parents who did not teach him not to attack people who might had annoyed him.

Now you're blaming not only the innocent victim, a high school kid who was simply walking home from the store, but also his parents, for a needless death that was solely caused by the reckless and impulsive actions of a self-styled vigilante with a history of problems controlling his own aggressive behaviors.

Are you so committed to the notion that all black man are violent and aggressive that you can't put yourself in the shoes of a frightened kid, particularly a young black male, who has had some creepy white guy trailing him in the dark and rain for no apparent reason? Are you that out of touch with what that kid was feeling, or the realistic apprehensions of young black men in our society?

Rachel Jeantel described what Martin was feeling--it was fear, not aggression. Martin didn't want to confront this creepy guy, it was Zimmerman who was interested in, and following, Martin, not vice versa. Martin wanted to just be left alone. And the last thing Jeantel heard Martin say, as Zimmerman approached him was, "Get off me."

"Get off me," is not the comment of someone who has been allegedly hiding in the bushes waiting to attack--it's the reaction of a frightened kid to being harassed by a creepy stranger. And that kid had a perfect right to throw a defensive punch at that creepy stranger, because that man would not leave him alone. And there is no incontrovertible evidence that he ever threw more than that single punch. A single defensive punch, in response to a definite provocation, does not justify, or in any way excuse, a shot to the heart.

Why don't you stop racially profiling Trayvon Martin?

1 Reply

@firefly,

His injuries were not that important to Zimmerman. We know this because he refused to be taken to the hospital. That's a fact!

People keep repeating that his head was banged against the cement sidewalk without even considering that Zimmerman himself did not complain of his injuries. HE REFUSED TO GO TO THE HOSPITAL.

People with any common sense would end the discussion there, but they insist that Zimmerman's injury was worse than Zimmerman himself reacted to them.

How in the world was that "life threatening?"

Bill keeps insisting he's color blind, but we all know from his posts that he's a racial bigot - without a heart. He gives all the benefit of the doubt to the vigilante-killer.

TNCFS

2 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

Zimmerman also didn't complain about those injuries when he saw the Physician's Asst. in his own doctor's office the next day. He only wanted a medical clearance note so he could back to work. The PA described his injures as "minor".

And Zimmerman never sought any further treatment for those injuries.

And, in the videos of his re-enactment for the police, taken the next day, he appears just fine, in no apparent pain or discomfort, no problems with his thinking, no swollen lumps on his head, no significant bruising on his head, just a few bandaids covering his scrapes. He didn't even have the significant black-eyes most people get after a trauma to the nose, he had only minimal darkening of that area.

Even the police thought he had exaggerated.

Quote:

Bill keeps insisting he's color blind, but we all know from his posts that he's a racial bigot - without a heart. He gives all the benefit of the doubt to the vigilante-killer.

He also blames rape victims for their own rapes, so at least he's consistent.

0 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

is injuries were not that important to Zimmerman. We know this because he refused to be taken to the hospital. That's a fact!

As one of the prosecutor own witness repeat the prosecutor own witness stated before the jury you do not need to wait until you had been seriously harm before you can turn to force up to deadly force to defense you self.

Quote:

http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2013/07/03/State-s-Witness-You-Probably-Don-t-Want-to-Wait-Until-You-re-Almost-Dead-to-Defend-Yourself

The direct questioning of Capt. Carter was fairly brief, around six minutes in all. However on cross examination Zimmerman's attorney, Don West, spent a significant amount of time discussing the law of self defense. This led to a number of interesting exchanges including this one:
Don West: On the issue of injuries, when you would talk about that with the class and your understanding of the law is that the focus is what's going on in the person's mind, not whether they have actually been injured. It's the fear of the injury is it not?
Capt. Carter: It's imminent injury or, excuse me, imminent fear. So the fact alone that there is isn't an injury...doesn't necessarily mean that the person did not have a reasonable apprehension of fear. The fact that there were injuries have a tendency to show or support that that person had a reasonable apprehension of fear. But the fact that there wasn't an injury at all doesn't necessarily mean there wasn't a reasonable apprehension of fear.
Don West: You don't have to wait until you're almost dead to defend yourself?
Capt. Carter: No, I would advise you probably don't want to do that.
This was delivered deadpan and the understatement brought a hint of laughter from the courtroom as well as a brief chuckle from George Zimmerman.
As the cross examination of Capt. Carter proceeded, an attorney for the prosecution repeatedly objected that Carter was only there to discuss his class not the law in general. West stipulated that he was interested in what Carter had taught in the class and then continued to ask questions like this:
Don West: So when you taught the class, what is the core concept of self-defense when you can use deadly force?
Capt. Carter: When you have a reasonable apprehension of death or grievous bodily harm.
Without being asked, Capt. Carter went on to describe the components of reasonable apprehension, a subjective believe that harm was imminent and an objective assessment--such as by a jury--that the belief was indeed reasonable. In other words, if the juror had been in the same situation as the defendant would they fear death or grievous bodily harm.
At one point Capt. Carter offered his own hypothetical situation involving self defense. Attorney Don West attempted to built on that and ask what it might mean if someone were calling for help but the attack did not stop. At this point the prosecutor objected again and Capt. Carter was not allowed to answer.

2 Replies

The State of Florida vs George Zimmerman: The Trial

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