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the greatest poet that ever lived

 
 
WBYeats
 
Reply Fri 7 Jun, 2013 08:27 pm
Hi, I've come across a problem that has plagued me so long; could you help me?

-TS Eliot is the greatest poet that ever lived.

TS Eliot is dead, so the act of living must be in the past, so LIVED instead of LIVES is used, but am I correct in saying that the writer means of those poets who are dead TS Eliot is the greatest, while whether of those living poets one is greater than TS Eliot is unknown?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 4 • Views: 972 • Replies: 8
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Jun, 2013 11:22 pm
@WBYeats,

No, I think you are wrong in that assumption. The phrase is taken to mean "the greatest poet ever, alive or dead."
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contrex
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Jun, 2013 11:42 pm
@WBYeats,
WBYeats wrote:
am I correct in saying that the writer means of those poets who are dead TS Eliot is the greatest, while whether of those living poets one is greater than TS Eliot is unknown?


You are not correct. "Ever lived" is not restricted to dead people. Living is not an "act", it is a state. I have lived in the past; I live in the present; I shall (I hope) live in the future. If we wished to confine the statement to dead poets, we would say "the greatest non-living poet".

I think the issue arises because of the tendency of US English generally to use the present perfect tense (have/has + past participle) far less than speakers of British English. In spoken American English it is very common to use the simple past tense as an alternative in situations where the present perfect would usually have been used in British English.

(US) Jenny feels ill. She ate too much.
(British) Jenny feels ill. She has eaten too much.

(US) TS Eliot is the greatest poet that ever lived.
(British) TS Eliot is the greatest poet that has ever lived.

(US) Seventy five percent of people who ever lived are alive today.
(British) Seventy five percent of people who have ever lived are alive today.
WBYeats
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Jun, 2013 02:08 am
Thanks all~

As to contrex's mention of the US/UK difference, I notice such a thing while watching American cartoons also.

According to contrex, does it mean THAT EVER LIVED is very unlikely to appear in UK English and THAT EVER LIVED can be comprehensible/natural/idiomatic only in US English?
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Jun, 2013 03:03 am
@WBYeats,
WBYeats wrote:
does it mean THAT EVER LIVED is very unlikely to appear in UK English and THAT EVER LIVED can be comprehensible/natural/idiomatic only in US English?


"That ever lived" is somewhat less likely (not "very unlikely") to appear in UK English, and is not comprehensible "only" in US English. Both forms are comprehensible to US and British English native speakers.
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Jun, 2013 07:57 am
@WBYeats,

Although I have lived, I'm not necessarily dead.

In fact I'm not dead at all.
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WBYeats
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Jun, 2013 10:13 pm
Thanks all~

I've learned a lot!
0 Replies
 
Debacle
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Jun, 2013 11:41 pm
An answer in a nutshell might have been formed by recalling the words of a keen observer of precise English usage: "It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is."
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WBYeats
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Jul, 2013 12:00 am
@contrex,
-I am at all times willing to do anything that seems to me likely to help Monkey, but I have a certain hesitation about the draft letter that you have sent me.

If at the beginning of a reply letter, would Americans use simply SENT for HAVE SENT?
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