17
   

We Have No Privacy, We Are Always Being Watched.

 
 
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Fri 14 Jun, 2013 05:38 am
@Frank Apisa,
I don't understand it. All our names and addresses are known. Were it deemed necessary to expose them it would be done.

I don't wish to know who any cyber personalities are because such knowledge is a limitation on free discussion. As are A2K meets.

It's an affectation designed, as you show, to prove you are the only man among us at zero cost to yourself because nobody is going to look you up on the basis of the twee contributions you permit yourself to indulge in.

You're just the odd man out.
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Fri 14 Jun, 2013 05:40 am
@spendius,
Furthermore, we have no evidence that it is your name.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Fri 14 Jun, 2013 06:05 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
No...I mean like the ones who didn't hide...and who stood up like men using their own names. But I suspect you wouldn't understand about that.


LOL if you have any understanding of American history you would have known that the two groups overlap over time.


And if you had any understanding of logic, you would realize how illogical that comment is. For the record, I have a decent amount of understanding of American history...and I realize that some individuals used aliases...which was a common thing to do at times. Sometimes people wrote under their real name...and other times under aliases.

Gosh...does that mean we both know American history?

Quote:
For example a large percent of Hamilton writings was done before and after the revolution under a pseudo name but he also lead an important attack at Yorktown in fact he begged Washington for the right to do so.


You were there? You heard him "beg."

So what is your point?


Quote:
You would need to be very simple minded to assume that anyone who write under a pseudo name is a coward of some type.


Of course I would...which is why I would never say such a thing. Why do you make so much stuff up?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Jun, 2013 06:09 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

I don't understand it.


Yes...we can all see that.

Quote:
All our names and addresses are known. Were it deemed necessary to expose them it would be done.


Really. You are sure of that, are you?

Quote:
I don't wish to know who any cyber personalities are because such knowledge is a limitation on free discussion.


My goodness...that is so very interesting. Thank you for sharing.


Quote:
As are A2K meets.


Does this qualify as a sentence fragment?


Quote:
It's an affectation designed, as you show, to prove you are the only man among us at zero cost to yourself because nobody is going to look you up on the basis of the twee contributions you permit yourself to indulge in.


You're just the odd man out.


Well I certainly have at least one "odd man" as a fan. Thank you for indulging me, Spendius. I love you in spite of your pomposity.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Fri 14 Jun, 2013 06:12 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Furthermore, we have no evidence that it is your name.


No...you don't. But if you ever develop the spine to attend some A2K meets, you might meet some folk who have met me...and who have thoroughly checked my ID and done a background check on me to establish beyond a doubt that I am who I say I am.

But I doubt you will ever develop the spine.

You are fun, Spendius.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Jun, 2013 06:21 am
@Frank Apisa,
Any literate person knows more about me from my username than they do about you from your given name. Assuming you are using your given name and your own strictures instruct us to be agnostic about that.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Jun, 2013 06:23 am
@Frank Apisa,
I don't do "spine". It's a mug's game. A psychiatrist will tell you that overblown assertions of having spine is a sign of an inferiority complex.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Jun, 2013 06:31 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
You were there? You heard him "beg."


My my I had taken the words of well respected historians who in turn had taken the surviving written words of people who was in those meetings.

You seems to be a male version of Firefly in your love of playing games.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Jun, 2013 07:46 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Any literate person knows more about me from my username than they do about you from your given name. Assuming you are using your given name and your own strictures instruct us to be agnostic about that.


You have a vivid imagination, Spendius. A laughable imagination...but a vivid one, nonetheless.

I'm me.

You are just a guy on a barstool using an alias.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Jun, 2013 07:47 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

I don't do "spine". It's a mug's game. A psychiatrist will tell you that overblown assertions of having spine is a sign of an inferiority complex.


Any particular pyschiatrist. The one trying to help you, perhaps?
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Jun, 2013 07:48 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
You were there? You heard him "beg."


My my I had taken the words of well respected historians who in turn had taken the surviving written words of people who was in those meetings.

You seems to be a male version of Firefly in your love of playing games.


If you say so, Bill. I'm enjoying myself. I'm getting a kick out of your efforts.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Jun, 2013 08:01 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
If you say so, Bill. I'm enjoying myself


LOL if you get enjoyment from playing the fool feel free to continue to do so.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Jun, 2013 08:19 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
If you say so, Bill. I'm enjoying myself


LOL if you get enjoyment from playing the fool feel free to continue to do so.


"Playing the fool"...no. "Playing with the fool"...perhaps.

Enjoyment from playing with you...definitely.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Jun, 2013 09:24 am
@Frank Apisa,
You seem overly obsessed with "having some fun" and suspiciously self-conscious and insistent about it too.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Jun, 2013 09:32 am
@spendius,
Quote:
A conspiracy theorist might allow himself to fleetingly entertain the notion that Mr Snowden is an agent provocateur put into play by socialists...

I don't think one has to be a conspiracy theorist to wonder whether Snowden was/is engaged in espionage for a foreign government, like China, or whether a foreign government has something on him that they used as leverage to get him to turn over and/or publicly reveal U.S. classified intelligence info. Our government is currently digging into Snowden's background, looking for any possible evidence of that, because it's not an insignificant concern. And, from I've read, his background is somewhat murky and difficult to verify.

Actually, I'm surprised there hasn't been more discussion of that possibility in this thread.

Why shouldn't people be questioning the motives and character of this 29 year old high school drop-out, who had only been working for this government contractor for 3 months, before he chose to appropriate classified intelligence information and look around for a taker, like the Guardian, who would make it public? Just who is this man?

firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Jun, 2013 09:37 am
Quote:
The New York Times
June 14, 2013
Snowden’s Leaks on China Could Affect Its Role in His Fate

By KEITH BRADSHER

HONG KONG — The decision by a former National Security Agency contractor to divulge classified data about the U.S. government’s surveillance of computers in mainland China and Hong Kong has complicated his legal position, but may also make China’s security apparatus more interested in helping him stay here, law and security experts said on Friday.

The South China Morning Post, a local newspaper, reported on Friday that Edward J. Snowden, the contractor, had shared detailed data showing the dates and Internet Protocol addresses of specific computers in mainland China and Hong Kong that the National Security Agency penetrated over the last four years. The data also showed whether the agency was still breaking into these computers, the success rates for hacking and other operational information.

Mr. Snowden told the newspaper that the computers were in the civilian sector. But Western experts have long said that the dividing line between the civilian sector and the government is very blurry in China. State-owned or state-controlled enterprises still control much of the economy, and virtually all are run by Communist Party cadres who tend to rotate back and forth between government and corporate jobs every few years as part of elaborate career development procedures.

Kevin Egan, a former prosecutor here who has represented people fighting extradition to the United States, said that Mr. Snowden’s latest disclosures would make it harder for him to fight an expected request by the United States for him to be turned over to American law enforcement. “He’s digging his own grave with a very large spade,” he said.

But a person with longstanding ties to mainland Chinese military and intelligence agencies said that Mr. Snowden’s latest disclosures showed that he and his accumulated documents could be valuable to China, particularly if Mr. Snowden chooses to cooperate with mainland authorities.

“The idea is very tempting, but how do you do that, unless he defects,” said the person, who insisted on anonymity because of the diplomatic sensitivities in the case. “It all depends on his attitude.”

The person declined to comment on whether Chinese intelligence agencies would obtain copies of all of Mr. Snowden’s computer files anyway if he is arrested by the Hong Kong police pursuant to a warrant from the United States, where the Justice Department has already been reviewing possible charges against him.

A Hong Kong Police Force spokeswoman said earlier this week that any arrest would have to be carried out by the Hong Kong police and not by foreign law enforcement. The Hong Kong police have a responsibility to share with mainland China anything of intelligence value that they find during raids or seizures of evidence, according to law enforcement experts.

Patricia Ho, a lawyer who specializes in political asylum at Daly and Associates, a Hong Kong law firm, said that if Beijing decides that it wants Mr. Snowden to stay in Hong Kong for a long time, the simplest way to do so would be for mainland officials to quietly tell Hong Kong’s government officials not to hurry the legal process.

The United States and China have long accused each other of monitoring each other’s computer networks for national security reasons. The United States has also accused China of hacking to harvest technological secrets and commercial data on a broad scale from American companies and transferring that information to Chinese companies to give them a competitive advantage.

Tom Billington, an independent cybersecurity specialist in Washington, said that mainland China could benefit by obtaining a copy of the data that Mr. Snowden gave to the South China Morning Post. The data, if independently verified, could help Chinese officials figure out which computers have been hacked, patch security holes, itemize compromised data, analyze the quality of computer security defenses and develop techniques for hardening other Chinese computers against future surveillance by the N.S.A.

According to The Guardian newspaper of Britain, Mr. Snowden showed up with four laptop computers for a meeting with its journalists in Hong Kong. But the Los Angeles Times has reported that Mr. Snowden originally smuggled electronic files out of the National Security Agency in Hawaii using a USB thumb drive.

Simon Young, the director of the Centre for Comparative and Public Law at the University of Hong Kong, said in a statement that it would be a violation of Hong Kong law to disclose any information that had been shared confidentially by the Hong Kong or mainland Chinese governments with the United States.

“These recent developments underline the importance of Mr. Snowden obtaining immediate legal advice in Hong Kong, especially before any further disclosures are made,” Mr. Young said.

Mr. Young did not suggest whether any of the data shared by Mr. Snowden would fall into this category. But the Hong Kong government has a history of close law enforcement cooperation with the United States, particularly in the area of counterterrorism. The Hong Kong police have long focused on trying to prevent the territory’s freewheeling financial system from becoming a base for Al Qaeda-related money laundering.

The South China Morning Post said that one target of N.S.A. hacking identified by Mr. Snowden was the Chinese University of Hong Kong, which hosts the city’s main hub for Internet connections to the rest of the world. “The University has not detected any form of hacking to the network, which has been running normally,” the university said in a statement.

The newspaper said that it had not independently verified the accuracy of the data that Mr. Snowden provided. But the United States government has not questioned the authenticity of any of the documents he has released.

The Global Times, a nationalistic mainland Chinese newspaper under the direct control of the Communist Party, published an editorial on Friday calling for China to glean as much information as possible from Mr. Snowden.

“Snowden is a ‘card’ that China never expected,” the commentary said. “But China is neither adept at nor used to playing it.”

The commentary also called for China and Hong Kong to treat Mr. Snowden kindly enough so that others with national security secrets will not be discouraged from fleeing here. “China should make sure that Hong Kong is not the last place where other ‘Snowdens’ want to go,” it said.

The Associated Press reported on Friday that Britain had issued an alert to airlines around the world warning them not to bring Mr. Snowden to its soil, and threatening them with a fine of 2,000 pounds, or $3,125. Geoffrey Robertson, of London, who was an initial lawyer for Julian Assange during the WikiLeaks dispute, criticized the alert as unusual because it was being applied to someone who has denounced government policies.

“This is a power hitherto used only against those who incite terrorism, race hatred and homophobia — never before against whistle-blowers,” Mr. Robertson wrote in an e-mail. “The British government is simply afraid that its judges, who are fiercely independent, and the European court would embarrass its closest ally by ruling that Snowden could not be extradited because, even if his “revelations” prove to be mistaken, he would be subjected to oppressive treatment akin to that being meted out to Bradley Manning,” the American Army private accused of having leaked secrets in the WikiLeaks case.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/15/world/asia/ex-nsa-contractors-disclosures-could-complicate-his-fate.html?hp&_r=0
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Jun, 2013 10:19 am
@firefly,
he has said nothing publicly that the chinese did not already know, which we know because the chinese for years have been complaining about NSA cyber attacks. Snowden might have some NSA generated digital proof which would be new and which might hurt US security, but analysis is out there that the chinese are unlikely to consider Snowden of intelligence value if he did want to defect, which he claims he does not want to do.

lets not forget that HK officials have already invited Snowden to leave their territory under his own will, which makes claims that the chinese want him for anything far fetched.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Jun, 2013 10:54 am
@spendius,
Quote:
You seem overly obsessed with "having some fun" and suspiciously self-conscious and insistent about it too.


How could you not be aware that this is one of Frank's favorite dog and pony shows, Spendius?

Next, he may well turn to his "I'm here for you [name]" schtick.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Fri 14 Jun, 2013 10:58 am
@firefly,
Amazing, Firefly. You have a government that is one of the dirtiest on the planet, in virtually every respect, and you start looking for explanations elsewhere.

How might you be different than Oralboy?
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Jun, 2013 12:25 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

You seem overly obsessed with "having some fun" and suspiciously self-conscious and insistent about it too.


You seem overly obsessed with me...and suspiciously self-conscious and insistent about it also.

I don't mind.
0 Replies
 
 

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