We will inspect poultry imported to Heilongjiang

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Sometimes when we use a countable noun in the plural, with THE it means every one of its type; without THE it means generally. But I'm not sure about this:

-We will inspect (the) poultry imported to Heilongjiang.

Does the use of THE make a difference stated above, or, does the use of THE depend on whether it's first knowledge in grammar? (the first time mentioned, no THE; second time, THE.)

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@WBYeats,

Quote:

Sometimes when we use a countable noun in the plural, with THE it means every one of its type; without THE it means generally. But I'm not sure about this:

-We will inspect (the) poultry imported to Heilongjiang.

Does the use of THE make a difference stated above, or, does the use of THE depend on whether it's first knowledge in grammar? (the first time mentioned, no THE; second time, THE.)

Without 'the', it means poultry in general. With 'the', it leads me, as a native speaker, to think that 'poultry' has been made specific due to a generally known grouping or a previously mentioned grouping.

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@WBYeats,

WBYeats wrote:

We will inspect (the) poultry imported to Heilongjiang.

They aren't called "definite" articles for nothing.

"Poultry imported to Heilongjiang" is not definite. It would interpreted as an unspecified part of the total amount of poultry imported to that province, whereas "The poultry imported to Heilongjiang" means "All poultry imported to Heilongjiang".

I spoke to members of the chess club - I spoke to more than one member.

I spoke to the members of the chess club - I spoke to all of them.

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@contrex,

Quote:

"Poultry imported to Heilongjiang" is not definite. It would interpreted as an unspecified part of the total amount of poultry imported to that province,

Poultry imported to Heilongjiang must be inspected by the Poultry Inspection Agency. sounds pretty definite, C. I can't see how it could be interpreted as anything less than all poultry.

Quote:

whereas "The poultry imported to Heilongjiang" means "All poultry imported to Heilongjiang".

The poultry imported to Heilongjiang between June 1 and June 6, 2013 has been put in quarantine. This applies to poultry imported from only two suppliers.

That's not "All poultry imported to Heilongjiang".

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@JTT,

JTT wrote:

Poultry imported to Heilongjiang must be inspected by the Poultry Inspection Agency. sounds pretty definite, C. I can't see how it could be interpreted as anything less than all poultry.

That's not the sentence he asked about, JTT, which was: "We will inspect (the) poultry imported to Heilongjiang."

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@contrex,

Quote:

I spoke to the members of the chess club - I spoke to all of them.

No, using 'the' does not necessarily mean you spoke to all of the members. It means a portion defined by something that makes it specific to a group of people.

I spoke to the members of the chess club could easily mean,

I spoke to the small number of members of the chess club that were present that day if this happened to be the conditions that the "in-group" knew of. It could also refer to any other specific number that has been referenced by a different set of conditions. These conditions are not/do not always have to be repeated because they are known to the "in-group".

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@contrex,

Quote:

That's not the sentence he asked about, JTT, which was: "We will inspect (the) poultry imported to Heilongjiang."

That's not the point, C.

You stated;

Quote:

They aren't called "definite" articles for nothing.

"Poultry imported to Heilongjiang" is not definite. It would interpreted as an unspecified part of the total amount of poultry imported to that province,

which was, at best, misleading.

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Whatever.

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@contrex,

Quote:

Whatever.

Whatever?!

You mislead on the fundamental question asked by WB and all you can come up with is "whatever".

And then in another thread, you have the temerity to say to WB,

"You have a long way to go in your English studies before you will be qualified to make such authoritative statements".

An English teacher, you say?

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Thank you~

I've got a sentence from news:

-Three of the suspects pleaded guilty, while seven others did not.

1.When no number of suspects has been mentioned, does the sentence necessarily mean there are more than ten suspects?

2. If there are only ten, THE must be used before SEVEN. Am I correct?

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@WBYeats,

WBYeats wrote:

1.When no number of suspects has been mentioned, does the sentence necessarily mean there are more than ten suspects?

2. If there are only ten, THE must be used before SEVEN. Am I correct?

1. When no total number of suspects has been mentioned, the sentence implies neither that there were more than ten nor that there were exactly ten.

2. If there are exactly ten, 'the' may (not must) be used before 'seven'.

Note: in most or all English-speaking jurisdictions, 'suspect' and 'person charged' do not mean the same thing. Only people who are charged with an offence go to court and make a plea.

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Thank you, C.

Situation: The government wants to consult the public on setting a steering committee to look into an incident. A government official says:

-We'll listen to the feedback from the public.

I wonder whether THE should be omitted, because very often FEEDBACK is not used with THE:

eg The teacher will give you feedback on the test.
eg We need both positive and negative feedback from our customers.

But my brain hurts when I think further: the feedback referred to by the official is quite definite - from the public, not from civil servants, etc; but another thought comes up: these things are called definite articles, but it doesn't necessarily mean something definite

egWe will inspect cracks in the wall.
egWe will inspect the cracks of the wall.

Obviously they refer to the same thing, but the language itself decides that when there is OF in such a case, THE is required. Apart from this...Oh I can't think further...

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@WBYeats,

Quote:

Situation: The government wants to consult the public on setting a steering committee to look into an incident. A government official says:

-We'll listen to the feedback from the public.

I wonder whether THE should be omitted, because very often FEEDBACK is not used with THE:

Many nouns are used both with and without 'the' or 'a', WB. You'll never be able to use them naturally focusing on that. The articles/articles are used to effect certain meanings.

I realize that the way you likely were taught English didn't rely on CONTEXT much. CONTEXT, as I've have repeatedly mentioned is vital to determining use.

But my brain hurts when I think further: the feedback referred to by the official is quite definite - from the public, not from civil servants, etc; but another thought comes up: these things are called definite articles, but it doesn't necessarily mean something definite

Consider why a politician might /would/could want to use 'the' in that situation.

eg The teacher will give you feedback on the test.
eg We need both positive and negative feedback from our customers.

In both examples 'feedback' is a general, non specific noun.

egWe will inspect cracks in the wall.
egWe will inspect the cracks of the wall. doesn't sound natural.

Obviously they refer to the same thing, but the language itself decides that when there is OF in such a case, THE is required.

Though this example is unnatural, you are right that when an 'of' phrase is used, 'the' is used. And why do you think that is?

Apart from this...Oh I can't think further...

These standalone sentences, devoid as they are of CONTEXT, make it virtually impossible for you to get a handle on using articles [general, no article]

Do some more reading. Even though your level of English is high, I recommend you read some children's books. Focus on the articles and the lack of articles and try to determine why they are used or why they are not used.

You must have CONTEXT to aid you in this. CONTEXT is why native children have virtually no problems at all with articles.

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We will inspect poultry imported to Heilongjiang

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