26
   

Terrorist attack in London

 
 
JTT
 
  0  
Sun 26 May, 2013 08:07 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
To hurt the Russians, the U.S. deliberately chose to give the most support to the most extreme groups. A disproportionate share of U.S. arms went to Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, "a particularly fanatical fundamentalist and woman-hater."' According to journalist Tim Weiner, " [Hekmatyar's] followers first gained attention by throwing acid in the faces of women who refused to wear the veil. CIA and State Department officials I have spoken with call him 'scary,' 'vicious,' 'a fascist,' 'definite dictatorship material."


Quote:
It not just non-Muslims that are the victims of these killers.


You have a lot of gall calling others 'killers', Bill, when it's the US that is responsible for millions killed. And what's worse, the US claims that it kills all these people to save them from oppression.

What's more, the US created the Taliban, they embraced them as valuable allies who they thought would help US business interests rape and pillage some more. The US didn't care about what the Taliban did to the citizens of Afghanistan, the US never cares what their chosen dictator does to innocents as long as US business interests are allowed to steal a countries wealth.

Quote:



The U.S. government was well aware of the Taliban's reactionary program, yet it chose to back their rise to power in the mid-1990s. The creation of the Taliban was "actively encouraged by the ISI and the CIA," according to Selig Harrison, an expert on U.S. relations with Asia. "The United States encouraged Saudi Arabia and Pakistan to support the Taliban, certainly right up to their advance on Kabul," adds respected journalist Ahmed Rashid. When the Taliban took power, State Department spokesperson Glyn Davies said that he saw "nothing objectionable" in the Taliban's plans to impose strict Islamic law, and Senator Hank Brown, chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Subcommittee on the Near East and South Asia, welcomed the new regime: "The good part of what has happened is that one of the factions at last seems capable of developing a new government in Afghanistan." "The Taliban will probably develop like the Saudis. There will be Aramco [the consortium of oil companies that controlled Saudi oil], pipelines, an emir, no parliament and lots of Sharia law. We can live with that," said another U.S. diplomat in 1997.

The reference to oil and pipelines explains everything. Since the collapse of the USSR at the end of 1991, U.S. oil companies and their friends in the State Department have been salivating at the prospect of gaining access to the huge oil and natural gas reserves in the former Soviet republics bordering the Caspian Sea and in Central Asia. These have been estimated as worth $4 trillion. The American Petroleum Institute calls the Caspian region "the area of greatest resource potential outside of the Middle East." And while he was still CEO of Halliburton, the world's biggest oil services company, Vice President Dick Cheney told other industry executives, "I can't think of a time when we've had a region emerge as suddenly to become as strategically significant as the Caspian." The struggle to control these stupendous resources has given rise to what Rashid has dubbed the "new Great Game," pitting shifting alliances of governments and oil and gas consortia against one another.

Afghanistan itself has no known oil or gas reserves, but it is an attractive route for pipelines leading to Pakistan, India, and the Arabian Sea. In the mid-1990s, a consortium led by the California-based Unocal Corporation proposed a $4.5 billion oil and gas pipeline from Turkmenistan through Afghanistan to Pakistan. But this would require a stable central government in Afghanistan itself. Thus began several years in which U.S. policy in the region centered on "romancing the Taliban." According to one report,

In the months before the Taliban took power, former U.S. assistant secretary of state for South Asia Robin Raphel waged an intense round of shuttle diplomacy between the powers with possible stakes in the [Unocal] project.

"Robin Raphel was the face of the Unocal pipeline," said an official of the former Afghan government who was present at some of de meetings with her....

In addition to tapping new sources of energy, de [project] also suited a major U.S. strategic aim in the region: isolating its nemesis Iran and stifling a frequently mooted rival pipeline project backed by Teheran, experts said.

But Washington's initial enthusiasm for the Taliban's seizure of power provoked a hostile reaction from human rights and women's organizations in the United States. The Clinton administration quickly decided to take a more cautious public approach. Plans to send the U.S. ambassador to Pakistan on a visit to Kabul were canceled, and the State Department decided not to recognize the new regime immediately. Nevertheless, Unocal executive vice president Chris Taggart continued to maintain, "If the Taliban leads to stability and international recognition then it's positive."

Tacit U.S. support for the Taliban continued until 1998, when Washington blamed Osama bin Laden for the bombing of the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania and retaliated by launching cruise missiles at bin Laden's alleged training camps in Afghanistan. The Taliban's refusal to extradite bin Laden- not its atrocious human rights record-led to UN-imposed sanctions on the regime the following year. "Former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright used to say that she cared about the women suffering under the Taliban, but after the Taliban took over the U.S. accepted very few refugees," points out journalist Laura Flanders. "In '96 and '97 no Afghan refugees were admitted to the United States; in '98, only 88, in '99, some 360."

Whatever the U.S. government's current rhetoric about the repressive nature of the Taliban regime, its long history of intervention in the region has been motivated not by concern for democracy or human rights, but by the narrow economic and political interests of the U.S. ruling class. It has been prepared to aid and support the most retrograde elements if it thought a temporary advantage would be the result. Now Washington has launched a war against its former allies based on a strategic calculation that the Taliban can no longer be relied upon to provide a stable, U.S.-friendly government that can serve its strategic interests. No matter what the outcome, the war is certain to lay the grounds for more "blowback" in the future.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Afghanistan/Afghanistan_CIA_Taliban.html
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Sun 26 May, 2013 08:14 am
@oralloy,
One of Uncle Sam's top semen gobblers. You're simply regurgitating Uncle Sam's insidious propaganda, Oralboy.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Sun 26 May, 2013 08:43 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
Thank you David, I wasn't accusing you of anything.
I know, but my condolences anyway.





David
0 Replies
 
Moment-in-Time
 
  1  
Sun 26 May, 2013 08:49 am
@neologist,
Quote:
Within the last hour or so, NBC news has related an attack on a lone soldier in Southeast London. Apparently, 2 men of Islamic persuasion, after disabling a British soldier with their car, proceeded to hack off his head in full view of the residential neighborhood in which the soldier lived. Some of this has been captured on video; but the radio descriptions of their blood stained hands convinced me not to view them.


I saw the video of the man with the bloody hands holding a machete which he had used to hack a British military man to death. What a sickening sight! What ruthless savegery!!!! I know one should not blame the entire ethnicity for such brutality but one can readily understand why some would want to avoid some religious extremists who appear unwavering in their determination to seek revenge against the West. In the US it seems to be a pattern....but smaller groups, less detectable (like the Boston Marathon bombers).....nonetheless persistent....we can never let our guard down....but caught before damage could be done.

The entire civilized world has been effected by this horrifying London attack ....it was the sheer depravity that has shaken many of us. It is reminiscent of the Wall Street Journalist, reporter Daniel Pearl, who was captured and beheaded on camera by terrorists in 2002. I had only read/heard/seen such atrocities in movies and or documentaries, for instance, the Mau Mau uprisings. These maniacal fanatics are truly uncivilized!

My heartfelt thoughts go out to the British populace.....the pain of 9/11 remains with me still so I can understand the British shock at such an attack in their country.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Sun 26 May, 2013 08:58 am
@Moment-in-Time,
Despite what some simple minded people like to think, the motivation for this is never straight forward. We're just starting to get details about these two men. One was stabbed by a crackhead in a dispute over drugs that killed one of his friends when he was still at school. Another was imprisoned in Kenya en route to Somalia, and was either raped in prison or threatened with rape.

There's so much still to understand, but it's really important that we do because the priority has to be to stop angry young men being radicalised. It's only a matter of time before an EDL thug murders an innocent Moslem, so we need to look at society as a whole.
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Sun 26 May, 2013 09:24 am
@izzythepush,
U don't think that the decedent
might wanna be avenged ??
JTT
 
  1  
Sun 26 May, 2013 09:27 am
@izzythepush,
And of course it has nothing to do with the UK's killing innocents around the world, right, Izzy?

You seem to have made the connection on Palestinians reacting to Israeli brutality. Why is it so difficult for you to make what is an identical connection here?
contrex
 
  2  
Sun 26 May, 2013 09:29 am
@Moment-in-Time,
Moment-in-Time wrote:
I had only read/heard/seen such atrocities in movies and or documentaries, for instance, the Mau Mau uprisings. These maniacal fanatics are truly uncivilized!


Hang on a minute. Some kind of agenda here? The British authorities in colonial Kenya at the time were just as bad if not worse; they shot, hanged, castrated or roasted alive dozens of people.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Sun 26 May, 2013 09:29 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
U don't think that the decedent
might wanna be avenged ??


The responses to this should be interesting.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Sun 26 May, 2013 09:40 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
but it's really important that we do because the priority has to be to stop angry young men being radicalised.


It's also really important to stop young men [all people actually] from being propagandized, which is just another form, equal in nature and effect, to being "radicalized".
saab
 
  1  
Sun 26 May, 2013 09:46 am
@JTT,
So we should stop people being propagandized.
very good
Then live as you learn - stop spreading propaganda
JTT
 
  1  
Sun 26 May, 2013 09:55 am
@saab,
This,

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Afghanistan/Afghanistan_CIA_Taliban.html

is not propaganda, Saab. Notice how you fled from those facts I presented to you. That's indicative of someone who has been brainwashed.

Have you read the articles I have presented in this thread?

JTT
 
  1  
Sun 26 May, 2013 09:57 am
@saab,
"Americans are too broadly underinformed to digest nuggets of information that seem to contradict what they know of the world. Instead, news channels prefer to feed Americans a constant stream of simplified information, all of which fits what they already know. That way they don't have to devote more air time or newsprint space to explanations or further investigations... Politicians and the media have conspired to infantilize, to dumb down, the American public. At heart, politicians don't believe that Americans can handle complex truths, and the news media, especially television news, basically agrees."

Tom Fenton, former CBS foreign correspondent

0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Sun 26 May, 2013 09:59 am
@saab,
"Even open-minded people will often find themselves unable to take seriously the likes of [Noam] Chomsky, [Edward] Herman, [Howard] Zinn and [Susan] George on first encountering their work; it just does not seem possible that we could be so mistaken in what we believe. The individual may assume that these writers must be somehow joking, wildly over-stating the case, paranoid, or have some sort of axe to grind. We may actually become angry with them for telling us these terrible things about our society and insist that this simply 'can't be true'. It takes real effort to keep reading, to resist the reassuring messages of the mass media and be prepared to consider the evidence again."

David Edwards - Burning All Illusions
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Sun 26 May, 2013 10:00 am
"We Americans are the ultimate innocents. We are forever desperate to believe that this time the government is telling us the truth."

Sydney Schanberg
0 Replies
 
Moment-in-Time
 
  2  
Sun 26 May, 2013 10:16 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:

There's so much still to understand, but it's really important that we do because the priority has to be to stop angry young men being radicalised. It's only a matter of time before an EDL thug murders an innocent Moslem, so we need to look at society as a whole.


I understand, Izzy, things are never quite as straightforward as we initially believe and the entire truth as to what motivated these men to behave the way they did has yet to unfold. It's just that the shock and awe of such crimes force one to lose one's equilibrium. After the dust settles, one can rationalize a little better, understanding "society as a whole" might possibly contribute more of a role than we might hitherto wish to admit. I'm also aware there is a deep abiding revenge-like anger against the West and it did not begin the day before.

Ah, our species has yet to reach that seemingly faraway plateau of wisdom and understanding where we view each other as one humanity with the same aspirations......hopes and dreams.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Sun 26 May, 2013 10:21 am

Quote:

Guantanamo exposes reality of US fascism

by Finnian Cunningham

They are essentially dead men who just happen to breathe. That is the grim assessment of the legal representative for the inmates in the American concentration camp, otherwise known as Guantanamo Bay.


More than 11 years after this penal colony was opened on the American-occupied territory of Cuba, there remains some 166 prisoners who live in a nightmarish world of indefinite detention.

Hundreds of others have been ground through the machine, spewed out like human waste. Denial of human freedom is torture; denial of any sense of when that torture ends adds a whole new barbarous dimension of cruelty.

American vanity likes to indulge in berating other countries for human rights violations: Russia, China, North Korea and Iran are paraded in the American media as pariah states, accused of failing international legal standards. In the past, the Soviet Union and its system of gulags was a particular favourite feature for Americans to contrast their supposed freedoms. How the ‘high and mighty’ self-proclaimed moral titans now stand exposed as hypocrites, charlatans and low-life perverts.

Thanks to the suffering of prisoners at Guantanamo, the world is seeing some shocking home truths about the real nature of American government and its formerly grandiose pretensions. Without Guantanamo, the world may have been duped a little longer by the American art of deception. But not anymore. The American style of dictatorship has everything that the old Soviet system had, but with an added insidious trait - the American delusion of exceptionalism.

Think about it. In Guantanamo, they have been rendered from all over the world by their captors like so much wild animals, physically and mentally tortured, humiliated and defiled. Most of them are Muslim, coming from Africa, the Middle East and Asia, where the US has been waging its permanent charade ‘War on Terror’ since 2001.

Such is the cruel vindictiveness of their captor country that these men’s only freedom - to read their holy Korans in the solitude of their cells - has been denied to them. More. Their sacred beliefs have been stamped on. Not only have their captors incarcerated their bodies; their tormentors want to hunt down their victims’ inner-most thoughts. This is taking human barbarity to scientific levels of depravity where the human spirit is sought out to be murdered.

Ninety percent of the Guantanamo hostages - a more appropriate description than ‘inmate’ - have never been charged with any offence. They are being held merely on the basis of suspicion by an American government that has lost all credibility and moral bearing in the eyes of the world.

For nearly 50 days now, 26 of the men at Guantanamo have been on a hunger strike. It is the only freedom left to these men. To refuse the most basic means of subsistence. That length of time without food is pushing the human body into a fatal condition. The muscles have been eaten away now by the body’s own metabolism to survive against deprivation; at this stage, the last vital organ of the brain becomes internally digested.

‘These men have figured out that probably the only way for them to go home - cleared or not - is in a wooden box,’ said their American-military appointed defence lawyer, Lt Col Barry Wingard, in a recent interview with Russia Today.

Wingard, who has been granted only limited access to consult with the prisoners said that he was shocked by the ‘animal cage’ conditions of the men when he last saw them three weeks ago. ‘They will never get a trial based upon the evidence that is against them,’ adds Wingard.

Let’s recap. Hundreds of men - in all probability innocent of suspected wrongdoing - are held for up to 11 years without charge, tortured and denied proper legal support - all perpetrated by the government of the US that proclaims to be the world’s standard bearer of democratic and human rights and international law. This is the same government that has overseen the invasion and illegal occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq, murdering millions of innocents, in the name of establishing democracy and international law.

But don’t confuse. Guantanamo is not a vile contradiction of America’s lofty claims. It is in fact a microcosm of the reality of how truly barbaric the American government has become.

Five years ago, when Barack Obama was running for the US presidency, the closure of Guantanamo was a central promise. To the credit of the American people, they voted him into the White House in order to tear down this abomination of human rights and international law and all the associated torture that it represented under Bush and the neocons.

Into his second administration, Obama has reiterated that Guantanamo is here to stay. How is that for a brazen betrayal and snub to democratic demand of the people? Appropriately, Obama has outdone Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Co. The imperialist permanent war on the world is being stepped and expanded to target Syria, Iran, China and Russia and whomever else dares to stand in the way of American hegemony. Obama’s wielding of secretive executive powers to execute any one, any time, any place in the world exceeds the fantasies of the Bush neocons.

The abomination that is Guantanamo is therefore an important moment of truth as to how far America has gone down the road to all-out fascism.

Ironically, it is men who have been deprived of everything even to the point of death who are exposing this powerful truth.

http://www.presstv.com/detail/2013/03/26/295256/guantanamo-exposes-reality-of-us-fascism/
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Sun 26 May, 2013 10:40 am
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

And of course it has nothing to do with the UK's killing innocents around the world, right, Izzy?


Lots of people protest against the UK's foreign policy without resorting to violence. We're out of Iraq now and will be out of Afghanistan soon, but I doubt that means the threat will go away once we're out of there.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Sun 26 May, 2013 10:45 am
@JTT,
Propaganda has always been about what facts you talk about and which ones you ignore. You like to quote from the Guardian, but you ran away from this article.

Quote:
I have been active in the human rights scene here since the dark days of the Soviet Union. As I look across today's Russia, I have every reason to believe that at the very top, the Kremlin has decided to destroy my country's civil society for daring to raise its head in protest against government repression and to demand fair elections and respect for the constitution.

From the end of the 80s to the middle of this century's first decade, a lively and active civil society formed in Russia. Today, it is an obstacle in the path of President Putin and his circle, who aim to form a harshly authoritarian, perhaps even totalitarian, regime.

It is precisely to destroy civil society – and primarily the human rights groups that form its backbone – that a series of repressive laws were adopted in 2012 by Russia's Duma, elected fraudulently and obedient to Putin. One of these laws requires that NGOs which receive funding from abroad and "engage in politics" voluntarily register as "foreign agents". This demand is the equivalent of Nazi Germany's demand that Jews don a yellow star.

This law is directed against human rights organisations that have to receive financing from foreign donors in order to maintain their independence – since neither the Russian government nor big business will support organisations whose goal is to protect citizens from violations of their rights by the state.

The foreign agents' law should not apply to human rights NGOs, as they do not engage in politics. However, the law defines the term "politics" as including "influencing the formation of public opinion" – and, of course, human rights NGOs do exactly that. For violating this law, NGOs face closure and fines of up to 500,000 rubles (£11,000), while their leaders face fines of up to 300,000 rubles and up to two years' imprisonment.

If the law demanded that NGOs register as organisations receiving foreign grants, all of us would register, as this would reflect the truth. But we cannot register as foreign agents. In Russia, "foreign agent" means "traitor", "spy". We are not agents of foreign governments or private foundations, as we do not carry out their instructions. To register as their agents would mean sacrificing our reputation.

Because not a single NGO registered as a foreign agent, several weeks ago the authorities began a mass wave of inspections across the country led by the state prosecutor, the ministry of justice and the tax authorities. We are aware of about 500 NGOs that have undergone such inspections – there are probably many more.

By law, the prosecutor has the right to conduct inspections only where there is evidence that a given organisation has, or is planning to, violate the law. The simultaneous inspection of hundreds of NGOs is a clearly illegal action by the prosecutor, whose mission is to ensure the law is obeyed.

Several dozen of the inspected NGOs have now received instructions stating that they are required to register as foreign agents. Golos, which organised election observers who uncovered massive falsifications during the parliamentary and presidential elections of 2011-2012, was the first to be sanctioned by the courts, receiving a fine of 300,000 rubles. All of these organisations are on the verge of being closed down.

The Moscow Helsinki Group, Russia's oldest human rights organisation, awaits this fate by the end of May, as do others. It is absolutely clear that Vladimir Putin's goal, as he begins his third term in office, is to destroy all independent civic activity. It is clear he fears that otherwise he will not succeed in retaining his office, let alone strengthening his authoritarian regime.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/24/vladimir-putin-goal-russian-civil-society?INTCMP=SRCH
JTT
 
  1  
Sun 26 May, 2013 10:54 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
Lots of people protest against the UK's foreign policy without resorting to violence. We're out of Iraq now and will be out of Afghanistan soon, but I doubt that means the threat will go away once we're out of there.


You are waffling, Izzy. For starters, it's not "UK's foreign policy" It's the UK's war crimes and terrorism leveled against innocents who have done nothing.

A lot of good you lot have done with your protesting. Blair and all the other UK war criminals are free, enjoying life while Iraqis, Afghans, Iranians, ... remain terrorized and subject to the after effects of the immense brutality heaped on them by the UK/US/... .

You've completely ignored the apt parallel to the Palestinian/Israeli situation.

Put yourself in the shoes of an Iraqi, an Afghan, a Nicaraguan, a Guatemalan, a Vietnamese, a ... .

Allowed, the UK hasn't supported the US in all its war crimes and terrorism but it has been recently.
 

Related Topics

Report: CIA foiled al-Qaida plot - Discussion by Lustig Andrei
Happy New Year from Pakistan - Discussion by djjd62
ISIS or Daesh - Question by usmankhalid665
Nothing about Brussels? - Discussion by McGentrix
Flavors of terrorists - Discussion by gungasnake
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 05/01/2024 at 07:56:22