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What Does ISIS Get out of Being EXCESSIVELY Cruel?

 
 
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2015 11:29 am
For instance it is believed burning alive a Jordanian pilot?

I understand that long ago humans did such things to scare, as in " dont mess with us because we are so crazy who knows what we will do to you"....is that what this is about? I have also heard a theory that they are trying to draw the West into a ground war in Iraq/Syria, where they hope to ambush and embarrass us.

This is a head scratcher for me. Has anyone figured this out?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 12 • Views: 6,245 • Replies: 61

 
Olivier5
 
  3  
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2015 11:45 am
@hawkeye10,
Sadism, I think.
tsarstepan
 
  3  
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2015 11:46 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

This is a head scratcher for me. Has anyone figured this out?

Huh?! We call these acts terrorism for a reason. Your confusion confuses me. What motivates most terrorism? The perceived need to get their message out. Terrorist acts are meant to terrorize.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2015 11:47 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
" dont mess with us because we are so crazy who knows what we will do to you"....is that what this is about?


I think that is exactly what it is about... and I think that they are having success with that message.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2015 11:55 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Sadism, I think.

Word is that they brainwash their fighters into sadism, and keep them drugged up as they spread their sadism, but almost certainly this is part of a methodical rational plan of the leadership because everything the ISIS does is methodical and rational. These are the most intelligent a capable terrorists we have ever faced I think.
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2015 12:19 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Word is that they brainwash their fighters into sadism, and keep them drugged up as they spread their sadism, but almost certainly this is part of a methodical rational plan of the leadership because everything the ISIS does is methodical and rational. These are the most intelligent a capable terrorists we have ever faced I think.

I'm thinking out loud here... haven't looked at the issue. But look at what they need, and what they can provide in exchange. They absolutely need a flow of foreign fighters. And they can provide these fighters with what? Sexual slaves and the occasional sadistic show of a beheading or two. I suspect that's both to intimidate AND part of the perks.

Excessive cruelty could also prove their weakness. The Taliban fell like paper tigers in 2001 ALSO because many Afghans were totally fed up with their cruelty.

engineer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2015 02:00 pm
@hawkeye10,
The idea is to cause as much trouble for the government in Jordan as possible. The pilot's family will I'm sure be all over the news denouncing the government.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2015 02:44 pm
Yeah, I don't get the attraction for the young women from Western countries that join their cause, either.

I guess garden variety Christian zealotry is too tame.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2015 02:53 pm
@InfraBlue,
Adventure, excitement... Why did Hemingway fight the Spanish civil war?
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2015 04:45 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Adventure, excitement... Why did Hemingway fight the Spanish civil war?

He didn't volunteer to behead anyone, though.

I can see volunteering for military service, but I can't see volunteering for a cause that uses stonings, crucifixions and beheadings for coersion.
Olivier5
 
  3  
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2015 05:07 pm
@InfraBlue,
Quote:
I can see volunteering for military service, but I can't see volunteering for a cause that uses stonings, crucifixions and beheadings for coersion.

The spanish civil war was not fought with roses either, and bombing innocent people in Falujah or Gaza from 30,000 ft high is not any better morally speaking than beheading innocent people by hand. Soldiers are professional murderers. And from the volunteer's point of view, jihad is a good cause...

hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2015 05:08 pm
So what is next? Hacking off limbs till the person is dead? Buried alive?

I wonder if Vegas has a line on this.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2015 05:14 pm
@engineer,
engineer wrote:

The idea is to cause as much trouble for the government in Jordan as possible. The pilot's family will I'm sure be all over the news denouncing the government.



This makes the royal family look good, as in "no matter how bad you think we suck we dont kill like ISIS". Being excessively cruel should make it harder to get a foothold in Jordan, which is why el Qaeda originally disowned ISIS, because excessive cruelty gets in the way of spreading the movement.....or at least that is what the underlings of Osama have believed through the years.
0 Replies
 
larryglz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2015 05:43 pm
Basically the mission goal of ISIS, as they voiced publicly back in June 2014, is to establish a new Islamic caliphate across the Middle East. Today, ISIS and al-Qaeda compete for influence over Islamist extremist groups around the world. And some experts believe ISIS may overtake Al-Qaeda as the most influential group globally.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  2  
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2015 05:45 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
I can see volunteering for military service, but I can't see volunteering for a cause that uses stonings, crucifixions and beheadings for coersion.

The spanish civil war was not fought with roses either, and bombing innocent people in Falujah or Gaza from 30,000 ft high is not any better morally speaking than beheading innocent people by hand. Soldiers are professional murderers. And from the volunteer's point of view, jihad is a good cause...

Yeah, I get that war is hell. I don't get how stonings, crucifixions, and beheadings are an attractive means towards the ends of a jihadi cause.
hawkeye10
 
  3  
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2015 05:57 pm
@InfraBlue,
This is interesting

Quote:
Didier François, who was held hostage along with three other French journalists by ISIS for 10 months before being released in April 2014, told CNN’s Christiane Amanpour in an interview that his captors did not keep a copy of the Quran. Asked by Amanpour if any of the guards where he was held ever spoke to captives, François said that the hostage-keepers forcefully described their violent ideology—but that religion did not enter into the doctrine as they expressed it. Said François:
Quote:
There was never really discussion about texts or—it was not a religious discussion. It was a political discussion. It was more hammering what they were believing than teaching us about the Quran. Because it has nothing to do with the Quran.
They didn’t even have the Quran; they didn’t want even to give us a Quran
.


http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/02/03/didier_francois_isis_quran_former_hostage_says_captors_did_not_discuss_religion.html

It does fit with my understanding that ISIS is heavily influenced by former Saddam men, who never had much use for religion.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2015 06:13 pm
@InfraBlue,
You mean they could be counter-productive? Yes. It could break the 'allure' of ISIS. I've heard interviews of a foreigner (French) ISIS fighter complaining bitterly about their leaders. In a calm but angry voice, his face hidden, he was saying that far too many foreign fighters were sent to their death at the hands of the kurdish peshmergeh in that town where they fought for months (name?), because the bosses saw it as a symbol, that foreign fighters were treated as expandable cannon fodder... It sounded convincing. According to another source, some of the foreigners returning to Europe would be disgusted and traumatized by the sheer level of random violence they witnessed... If true, they talk to their siblings about it.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2015 06:20 pm
@Olivier5,
Quote:
he was saying that far too many foreign fighters were sent to their death at the hands of the kurdish peshmergeh in that town where they fought for months (name?), because the bosses saw it as a symbol, that foreign fighters were treated as expandable cannon fodder..


I am not sure that is a problem....here in America people are increasingly dropping off the map re employment into poverty but they are ignored, it is not at issue because everyone thinks it will not happen to them. We have been shrinking the middle class with most of those leaving moving down and only a small slice moving up, but here again almost everyone thinks they will be winners not losers so we are not much interesting in the problems of the losers. So long as people think that they will get the best drugs, lots of money, and all the pussy the have time to use they probably will not even hear the complaints of the cannon fodder.
Moment-in-Time
 
  2  
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2015 08:00 pm
@Olivier5,
Quote:
I suspect that's both to intimidate AND part of the perks.


I agree, at least with the "intimidate" aspect of your statement. Terrorism is a tactic, a strategy to achieve a specific end. ISIS "intimidates" opponents by creating a climate of sheer fear on those he wishes to defeat. In some cases, this type of deliberate cruel barbarity *beheading, burning alive" has caused some to drop their weapons and run away out of sheer fear. Also, ISIS leader(s) might be aggressive maniacs driven by a warped religious fervor for power.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2015 10:06 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
and bombing innocent people in Falujah or Gaza from 30,000 ft high is not any better morally speaking than beheading innocent people by hand. Soldiers are professional murderers.

Soldiers always attempt to avoid harming civilians. That pilot bombing from 30,000 feet is doing their utmost to avoid striking any civilians.

That is a significant moral difference from someone who is intentionally beheading an innocent person.
0 Replies
 
 

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