Satan (a discussion)

@neologist,

neologist wrote:

You and I certainly have different concepts of God.

I do not have a concept of "a" God...I do have a concept of the god of the Bible...and it is not very favorable.

In any case, our concepts of gods are not at issue.

You assert you KNOW a GOD exists. I am asking how you know.

I am also asking if perhaps your "knowing" is not knowing at all...but rather just a guess.

1 Reply

@neologist,

I got it! I know God exists in the same way your name reminds me of my favorite food. Not sardines, this time . . . NO. But equally delicious with a robust IPA. That's it! Tell me that's not true.
[/quote]

I think you are really trying to say.. Christians believe there's a God and 80% of

the great old USA are Christians.. so it must be true. :-).

0 Replies

I was wrong about having reached the lowest level of absurdity.

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

I am also asking if perhaps your "knowing" is not knowing at all...but rather just a guess.

Hypothetically...

If it was a game like chess the next move would have to be... god spoke to me... what's your next move?

1 Reply

@igm,

igm wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

I am also asking if perhaps your "knowing" is not knowing at all...but rather just a guess.

Hypothetically...

If it was a game like chess the next move would have to be... god spoke to me... what's your next move?

I'd rather not deal with a hypothetical.

Neo can answer...and in fact, already has.

When I asked how...there was evasion and hedging.

Let's just see what Neo says.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

igm wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

I am also asking if perhaps your "knowing" is not knowing at all...but rather just a guess.

Hypothetically...

If it was a game like chess the next move would have to be... god spoke to me... what's your next move?

I'd rather not deal with a hypothetical.

Neo can answer...and in fact, already has.

When I asked how...there was evasion and hedging.

Let's just see what Neo says.

It's used all the time throughout history and it works Wink

1 Reply

@igm,

Quote:

igm wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

igm wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

I am also asking if perhaps your "knowing" is not knowing at all...but rather just a guess.

Hypothetically...

If it was a game like chess the next move would have to be... god spoke to me... what's your next move?

I'd rather not deal with a hypothetical.

Neo can answer...and in fact, already has.

When I asked how...there was evasion and hedging.

Let's just see what Neo says.

It's used all the time throughout history and it works

What does? The hypotheticals?

Sometimes hypotheticals work...sometimes they lead to the gutter.

But since you seem intent on insisting, igm, I will indulge you:

Quote:

If it was a game like chess the next move would have to be... god spoke to me... what's your next move?

One person in A2K has already asserted that...and I then asked:

Are you sure you are not deluding yourself?

He beat around the bush on that question also...and I suspect that since Neo evaded on the first question, that same thing might happen.

Once the person suggests that he is sure he is not deluding himself...you gotta bow out of the conversation, because the person simply is not being reasonable.

Okay?

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Exactly... that's why it's used on many occasions... the faithful believe and the unfaithful don't but one doesn't need the unfaithful to believe you unless they become faithful due to their deciding that god does speak to you.

You can't know the minds of others so as you say... you the agnostic or any unbelievers have to bow out or lower yourself to petty name calling... checkmate!

2 Replies

@igm,

I guess I was born in the year MDCCCCXLII
I guess I remember the day Adolf Hitler committed suicide
I guess I remember Bobby Thompson's "Shot heard around the world" at the end of the 1951 Baseball season.
I guess the hated Yankees beat the Giants in the series that year.
I guess I weigh over 250 pounds
I guess there is a gun and knife show in Centralia this weekend
I guess you can come, if you want.
I guess there is a God
I guess there are gods.
I guess you might not believe all that
But I highly suspect it is all true.

2 Replies

@neologist,

neologist wrote:

I guess I was born in the year MDCCCCXLII
I guess I remember the day Adolf Hitler committed suicide
I guess I remember Bobby Thompson's "Shot heard around the world" at the end of the 1951 Baseball season.
I guess the hated Yankees beat the Giants in the series that year.
I guess I weigh over 250 pounds
I guess there is a gun and knife show in Centralia this weekend
I guess you can come, if you want.
I guess there is a God
I guess there are gods.
I guess you might not believe all that
But I highly suspect it is all true.

So...you are changing your answer of earlier from "yes" to "no?"

0 Replies

@igm,

igm wrote:

Exactly... that's why it's used on many occasions... the faithful believe and the unfaithful don't but one doesn't need the unfaithful to believe you unless they become faithful due to their deciding that god does speak to you.

You can't know the minds of others so as you say... you the agnostic or any unbelievers have to bow out or lower yourself to petty name calling... checkmate!

Sorry, but I do not understand what you just said there.

1 Reply

@neologist,

Sorry neo, not sure the point you're making... given (the content of) my posts Smile

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

Quote:
igm wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

igm wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

I am also asking if perhaps your "knowing" is not knowing at all...but rather just a guess.

Hypothetically...

If it was a game like chess the next move would have to be... god spoke to me... what's your next move?

I'd rather not deal with a hypothetical.

Neo can answer...and in fact, already has.

When I asked how...there was evasion and hedging.

Let's just see what Neo says.

It's used all the time throughout history and it works

What does? The hypotheticals?

Sometimes hypotheticals work...sometimes they lead to the gutter.

But since you seem intent on insisting, igm, I will indulge you:

Quote:
If it was a game like chess the next move would have to be... god spoke to me... what's your next move?

One person in A2K has already asserted that...and I then asked:

Are you sure you are not deluding yourself?

He beat around the bush on that question also...and I suspect that since Neo evaded on the first question, that same thing might happen.

Once the person suggests that he is sure he is not deluding himself...you gotta bow out of the conversation, because the person simply is not being reasonable.

Okay?

Frank Apisa wrote:

igm wrote:

Exactly... that's why it's used on many occasions... the faithful believe and the unfaithful don't but one doesn't need the unfaithful to believe you unless they become faithful due to their deciding that god does speak to you.

You can't know the minds of others so as you say... you the agnostic or any unbelievers have to bow out or lower yourself to petty name calling... checkmate!

Sorry, but I do not understand what you just said there.

I'll make it brief... saying God speaks to you wins all arguments... and as I used the Chess analogy... that means checkmate!

1 Reply

@igm,

igm wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

Quote:
igm wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

igm wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

I am also asking if perhaps your "knowing" is not knowing at all...but rather just a guess.

Hypothetically...

If it was a game like chess the next move would have to be... god spoke to me... what's your next move?

I'd rather not deal with a hypothetical.

Neo can answer...and in fact, already has.

When I asked how...there was evasion and hedging.

Let's just see what Neo says.

It's used all the time throughout history and it works

What does? The hypotheticals?

Sometimes hypotheticals work...sometimes they lead to the gutter.

But since you seem intent on insisting, igm, I will indulge you:

Quote:
If it was a game like chess the next move would have to be... god spoke to me... what's your next move?

One person in A2K has already asserted that...and I then asked:

Are you sure you are not deluding yourself?

He beat around the bush on that question also...and I suspect that since Neo evaded on the first question, that same thing might happen.

Once the person suggests that he is sure he is not deluding himself...you gotta bow out of the conversation, because the person simply is not being reasonable.

Okay?

Frank Apisa wrote:

igm wrote:

Exactly... that's why it's used on many occasions... the faithful believe and the unfaithful don't but one doesn't need the unfaithful to believe you unless they become faithful due to their deciding that god does speak to you.

You can't know the minds of others so as you say... you the agnostic or any unbelievers have to bow out or lower yourself to petty name calling... checkmate!

Sorry, but I do not understand what you just said there.

I'll make it brief... saying God speaks to you wins all arguments... and as I used the Chess analogy... that means checkmate!

Aha! Yer right as rain.

I used to just terminate discussions with people the minute they said that they KNEW there was a GOD, but I've since decided to give those two other steps a shot. (How do you know...and how do you know you are not deluding yourself.)

Never have had either of them produce anything worthwhile.

Checkmate does capture the mood very well. Thanks.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

0 Replies

Frank and Igm,

The verb "know" is a internal action of a conscious mind. A mind can know that there is a God based on its own understanding. If there is an absolute external truth, it has nothing to do with what your mind knows.

I don't know hos you would define the verb "to know"?

And I bet that there are things that each of you know that I could poke holes in far more easily than you are doing with Neo.

When Neo says he knows there is a God, I believe him.

1 Reply

It also seems rather hypocritical for a Buddhist to criticize other people's faith. The Buddhist religion has quite a few things that are just "known" by faith without any reason.

2 Replies

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Frank and Igm,

The verb "know" is a internal action of a conscious mind.

Is that because you have declared it so...or has some god written it on a wall somewhere?

I have stated several times that I am willing to use a functional definition of "know." I know my name; I know I am typing at a keyboard; I know I live in the house where I am typing; I know Washington, D.C. is the capital of the country in which I reside.

Quote:

A mind can know that there is a God based on its own understanding. If there is an absolute external truth, it has nothing to do with what your mind knows.

Why, because you have declared that to be so...or has a god written that on a wall somewhere?

A mind can make a guess that there is a GOD...or a mind can make a guess that there are no gods...and can, laughingly, present that as "knowing" those things.

Without a doubt the absolutel truth has nothing to do with what your mind guesses...whether you have the strength of character to call it a guess or if you pretend it is knowledge.

Quote:

I don't know hos you would define the verb "to know"?

Well make a guess...and pretend you do know.

Quote:

And I bet that there are things that each of you know that I could poke holes in far more easily than you are doing with Neo.

There are very few things I truly know...but I am willing to make adjustments and use a functional definition for the sake of conversation. Other than those functionally defined examples...name one thing I know that you can easily poke holes in.

Quote:

When Neo says he knows there is a God, I believe him.

There are people who can cure that, Max...or who claim they can. Do you need a reference?

0 Replies

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

It also seems rather hypocritical for a Buddhist to criticize other people's faith. The Buddhist religion has quite a few things that are just "known" by faith without any reason.

I think it is preposterous to claim that what is happening here is criticizing someone else's faith!

I certainly am not...and I do not see igm doing it either.

We are having a discussion about whether or not Neo KNOWS there is a GOD. I've had similar discussions with atheists who claim they KNOW there are no gods.

I consider those kinds of claims to be absurd...so I discuss them. Why do you object to that...and why does it cause you to mischaracterize what we are doing?

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

I know what the definition of "know" is. (A statement that is both wonderfully circular and logically consistant). You can look at the dictionary definition if you would like. The word refers to an internal state of mine.

I am supporting Neo here. I have no doubt that he knows there is a God. I also have no doubt that some atheists know there is no God.

1 Reply

Satan (a discussion)

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