Satan (a discussion)

That's a silly argument. Just because the same word happens to be used doesn't mean anything. Does every lamb mentioned in the Bible literally refer to Jesus? Peter is "the rock", does that mean it was Peter that David hurled at Goliath to slay him?

You have to look at the text for what it is. And, it is very clear.

The serpent in Genesis was a snake, a created "beast of the field". His descendants (today's snakes) were punished for his role in the story. This does not describe Satan.

Read the text in Genesis 3 again.

Quote:

Satan is referred to as a liar (John 8:44) because he lied to Adam and Eve, telling them, if they ate the fruit, not only would they not die, but they would be better off, judging for themselves what was good and what was bad.

Here we go again. It was a serpent who persuaded Adam and Eve to eat the fruit. It was not Satan.

We know this because the text refers to the serpent as one of "the wild beasts of the field that Jehovah God had made". And God punishes snakes for this act, condemning them to crawl in the dust which wouldn't make sense if it wasn't really a literal snake at fault.

See Genesis 3 for the actual text.

I don't know why you persist in this error.

Are we to assume that snakes had the facility of speech? Whom do you suppose put the words in the serpent's mouth? Was it . . . Satan?

I wrote:

Are we to assume that snakes had the facility of speech? Whom do you suppose put the words in the serpent's mouth? Was it . . . Satan?

The Bible says that the serpent was a created beast of the field. And, the Bible says that God punished snakes for what happened. There is nothing there to imply that Satan was there.

The Bible says what it says. See Genesis 3 for the literal text. It is pretty clear .

Anything else is your invention.

Satan (Hebrew: הַשָּׂטָן ha-Satan, "the opposer,"[1]) is a character appearing in the texts of the Abrahamic religions,[2][3] who personifies evil and temptation, and is known as the deceiver that leads humanity astray. The term is often applied to an angel who fell out of favor with God, seducing humanity into the ways of sin, and who now rules over the fallen world.

Satan is primarily understood as an "accuser" or "adversary" in the Hebrew Bible, and is not necessarily the personification of evil that he would become in later Abrahamic religions. . . .

Now the serpent proved to be the most cautious of all the wild beasts of the field that Jehovah God had made. So it began to say to the woman: “Is it really so that God said ​YOU​ must not eat from every tree of the garden?”2At this the woman said to the serpent: “Of the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat.3But as for [eating] of the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the garden, God has said, ‘YOU​ must not eat from it, no, ​YOU​ must not touch it that ​YOU​ do not die.’”4At this the serpent said to the woman: “YOU​ positively will not die.5For God knows that in the very day of ​YOUR​ eating from it ​YOUR​ eyes are bound to be opened and ​YOU​ are bound to be like God, ​KNOWING​ good and bad.”

6Consequently the woman saw that the tree was good for food and that it was something to be longed for to the eyes, yes, the tree was desirable to look upon. So she began taking of its fruit and eating it. Afterward she gave some also to her husband when with her and he began eating it.7Then the eyes of both of them became opened and they began to realize that they were naked. Hence they sewed fig leaves together and made loin coverings for themselves.

8Later they heard the voice of Jehovah God walking in the garden about the breezy part of the day, and the man and his wife went into hiding from the face of Jehovah God in between the trees of the garden.9And Jehovah God kept calling to the man and saying to him: “Where are you?”10Finally he said: “Your voice I heard in the garden, but I was afraid because I was naked and so I hid myself.”11At that he said: “Who told you that you were naked? From the tree from which I commanded you not to eat have you eaten?”12And the man went on to say: “The woman whom you gave to be with me, she gave me [fruit] from the tree and so I ate.”13With that Jehovah God said to the woman: “What is this you have done?” To this the woman replied: “The serpent—it deceived me and so I ate.”

14And Jehovah God proceeded to say to the serpent: “Because you have done this thing, you are the cursed one out of all the domestic animals and out of all the wild beasts of the field. Upon your belly you will go and dust is what you will eat all the days of your life.15And I shall put enmity between you and the woman and between your seed and her seed. He will bruise you in the head and you will bruise him in the heel.”

God did not punish the snake. His judgement was against the one who did the decieving

neologist wrote:

God did not punish the snake. His judgement was against the one who did the deceiving

Give up.. you're wrong and you know it.

Essentially, "the deceiver" in the story was the god of the story. The god denied this couple the ability to make an informed, reasonable decision...denied them the ability to know any difference between right and wrong; between good and evil...

...and then punished them for doing something wrong and evil.

The story is a joke of sorts, because the only thing it can possibly "teach" a reasonable, intelligent person is that the god cannot be trusted in any way.

Frank Apisa wrote:

Essentially, "the deceiver" in the story was the god of the story. The god denied this couple the ability to make an informed, reasonable decision...denied them the ability to know any difference between right and wrong; between good and evil...

...and then punished them for doing something wrong and evil.

The story is a joke of sorts, because the only thing it can possibly "teach" a reasonable, intelligent person is that the god cannot be trusted in any way.

Actually, Frank, since you declined to capitalize the word 'god', you are essentially correct.

I said 'essentially'. Still some adjustment needed. But, hey!

And Jehovah God proceeded to say to the serpent: “Because you have done this thing, you are the cursed one out of all the domestic animals and out of all the wild beasts of the field. Upon your belly you will go and dust is what you will eat all the days of your life.15And I shall put enmity between you and the woman and between your seed and her seed. He will bruise you in the head and you will bruise him in the heel.”

Very clearly when God says to the snake "you are the cursed one out of all the domestic animals and out of all the wild beasts of the field." he is talking to an animal.

Not that I mean to accidentally support Neo's argument on this or anything because it's ridiculous, and not that I mean to give any credence to such a silly discussion as a literal interpretation of genesis... but does it make any sense at all that God would be talking to an animal?

A snake wouldn't understand anything unless God changed it to make it understand, and then it wouldn't really be a "snake" any more. And condemning a snake to crawl on its belly, which it does anyway just by its very nature, is just dumb.

. . . Well...I was talking about that god described in the Bible...so naturally I would use a small "g." . . . .