Men will never be free until . . .

@Setanta,

If you exchanged congressmen for kings I might be persuaded too agree.

2 Replies

@RABEL222,

RABEL222 wrote:

If you exchanged congressmen for kings I might be persuaded too agree.

Methinks Set faults Diderot for not first considering the 'moral' majority.

1 Reply

@neologist,

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn . . . wrong. Next contestant . . .

1 Reply

@neologist,

Heavy stuff.

0 Replies

@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn . . . wrong. Next contestant . . .

Just pokin ya, Set. But it's hard to ignore the complicity that does occur.

1 Reply

@neologist,

I haven't suggested that it be ignored. You just obsess over priests, as though your elders weren't every bit as authoritarian.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

I haven't suggested that it be ignored. You just obsess over priests, as though your elders weren't every bit as authoritarian.

If you are referring to the elders in my congregation, they receive no compensation and have no power to maintain.

1 Reply

@neologist,

Right, Bubba . . . and what happens if you publicly dispute the Watchtower Society? What happens if you are accused of being apostate? They have as much power as any priest to exclude you from the community.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

Right, Bubba . . . and what happens if you publicly dispute the Watchtower Society? What happens if you are accused of being apostate? They have as much power as any priest to exclude you from the community.

Why should I not be excluded if I exclude myself?

0 Replies

Whether or not you are excluded or exclude yourself is not relevant to the observation that there is within your community a power equivalent to the priest. You like to preen yourself that your particular superstition community is somehow better because you don't have anyone you call a priest.

1 Reply

@RABEL222,

If you exchange politicians and CEOs and bankers for kings I'll hop on too.

1 Reply

@JLNobody,

I think everyone is a king in their own right...

I am still on board.

0 Replies

Men will never be free until the thought of strangling one man with
another man's entrails is too disgusting even for a metaphor.

1 Reply

@George,

George wrote:

Men will never be free until the thought of strangling one man with
another man's entrails is too disgusting even for a metaphor.

May we see that time come, George.

0 Replies

@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

Whether or not you are excluded or exclude yourself is not relevant to the observation that there is within your community a power equivalent to the priest. You like to preen yourself that your particular superstition community is somehow better because you don't have anyone you call a priest.

Well, let's see what I lack amongst my congregation. We have no:
1] Rituals
2] Icons or other images
3] Cultural or tribal differences. JWs in Rwanda risked their lives to protect members of other tribes.
4] Fear of eternal punishment, and along with that, no
5] necessity for indulgences
6] Paid clergy
7] Collections

BTW, as I've said on this board before, I was booted from the association in the late 80's. I deserved it and worked hard to be reinstated. It was not a 'punishment' as some might perceive it. It forced me to grow a spine.

I could be wrong, of course.
But I can see where many others in this world are considerably wronger.

3 Replies

@neologist,

I learned in the military, don't be the first or the last. Never volunteer, and remain incognito; don't stick out!

0 Replies

@neologist,

I know JWs well. They most definitely have rituals. Baptism, communion, marriage, funerals, door knocking, weekly services and judicial hearings (to name a few).

The lack of fear for eternal punishment doesn't matter much, the idea is if you are bad you will be annihilated and excluded from heaven works the same as Hell in other Christian religions.

Saying there is no paid clergy is stretching the truth. Elders are given cars and many of them are given valuable "gifts" by congregation members.

And saying there are no "collections" is misleading. There is definitely social pressure to give money and time (and everyone gives money).

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

I know JWs well. They most definitely have rituals. Baptism, communion, marriage, funerals, door knocking, weekly services and judicial hearings (to name a few).

Ya'know, I was thinking of the genuflecting, the holy water, incense processions, stuff like that. So, I guess by your definition car salesmen might be considered as having rituals

maxdancona wrote:

The lack of fear for eternal punishment doesn't matter much, the idea is if you are bad you will be annihilated and excluded from heaven works the same as Hell in other Christian religions.

I don't expect to go to heaven and am not troubled by that realization.

maxdancona wrote:

Saying there is no paid clergy is stretching the truth. Elders are given cars and many of them are given valuable "gifts" by congregation members.

Funny I have not noticed that in 40 + years . Compared to TV evangelists, our guys are paupers.

maxdancona wrote:

And saying there are no "collections" is misleading. There is definitely social pressure to give money and time (and everyone gives money).

Our congregation budget runs less than $3000 a month for 125 members. Extravagant, eh? Nobody knows how much I give or do not give.

1 Reply

@neologist,

Your argument is, then, look at those other guys, they're a lot worse off. Leaving aside how vague that argument is, it's a lot like saying that one woman is not as pregnant as another.

1 Reply

@neologist,

In baptism, a person repeats magic words and then is totally immersed in water to symbolize their own death.

How is this not a ritual?

1 Reply

Men will never be free until . . .

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