Why I am an athiest

@Olivier5,

How can he? He doesn't have beliefs. Shocked

He's not even sure he's posting his beliefs on a2k.

0 Replies

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

"Is it possible to live without beliefs?"

FBM: "I don't know. I'll experiment and see what I come up with."

Olivier: "I know. I have experimented and saw what I came up with. I am glad to report it is an irrational, empirically unsupported and illogical premisse to try and live without beliefs."

That's all we've been saying for zillions of posts. And I stand by that sentence above which is not a straw man but my position.

I am an atheist too, by the way. But a realist one.

Oh, OK. It looked for a bit that I may have been trying to knock a fundie off his/her theism.

Do you know what a staw man fallacy is? In those zillions of posts, you keep claiming that I have said that I know, when I have obviously, repeatedly emphasized that I haven't. Straw man after straw man. Or poor reading comprehension? Poor reasoning skills?

You claim that you have experimented and were unable to live without beliefs, and then extrapolated from there that nobody can. Have you forgotten the Problem of Induction already? I can't run a three-minute mile. I've tried and failed. But I don't judge from my experience that nobody can. Apparently you would?

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

For instance, have you ever made a reasoned judgement or a moral call based on existing and necessarily partial/insufficient evidence? Yes or no.

I make best guesses, of course. But that's all they are. Guesses. Then I review the results, accumulate data, etc. I don't make absolute knowledge statements based on beliefs, though. Recall the bit about Pyrrhonism accepting immediate experience?

If you believe that it is logically impossible to live a life without beliefs and you have a priori justification for that belief, please present that argument without resorting to yet another straw man or other fallacy. You're making the absolute knowledge claim here, not me. Simply post logical or empirical proof.

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@FBM,

Quote:

Do you know what a staw man fallacy is? In those zillions of posts, you keep claiming that I have said that I know, when I have obviously, repeatedly emphasized that I haven't. Straw man after straw man. Or poor reading comprehension? Poor reasoning skills?

Where did I ever say that? You don't know much, that much is certain.

Quote:

You claim that you have experimented and were unable to live without beliefs, and then extrapolated from there that nobody can. Have you forgotten the Problem of Induction already? I can't run a three-minute mile. I've tried and failed. But I don't judge from my experience that nobody can. Apparently you would?

It's generalisable because of 1) one should respect obvious empirical evidence (sense of self for instance); 2) the lack of internal logic of your version of Pyrrhonism; and 3) the lack of scientific evidence that Pyrrhonism ever "worked" for anyone.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
Point of order: You asserted that it is impossible to live without beliefs.

And you asserted it is possible. ...

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

It's generalisable because of 1) one should respect obvious empirical evidence (sense of self for instance)

I respect first-hand experience and necessary inference and have repeatedly agreed that I experience a sense of self. Have you solved the Problem of Induction, then, so that you can generalize your experience to everyone else?

Quote:

2) the lack of internal logic of your version of Pyrrhonism;

Which is?

Quote:

and 3) the lack of scientific evidence that Pyrrhonism ever "worked" for anyone.

Absence of evidence is now allowed as evidence of absence? Seriously?

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@FBM,

Are your guesses acted upon?

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Are your guesses acted upon?

Exactly what the question suggested. Limited information.

1 Reply

@FBM,

A simple yes or no is needed.

Question:

Quote:

Are your guesses acted upon?

1 Reply

If we put your truth claim as the conclusion of a hypothetical syllogism, what are the premises?

If A, then...etc.

Conclusion: Therefore, it is impossible to live without beliefs.

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@FBM,

You have difficulty answering simple questions, don't you?

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

A simple yes or no is needed.

Question:
Quote:
Are your guesses acted upon?

Thank you, but I'll dictate the form of my answers. I answered your question in my first response to Olivier.

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@FBM,

FBM wrote:

If we put your truth claim as the conclusion of a hypothetical syllogism, what are the premises?

If A, then...etc.

Conclusion: Therefore, it is impossible to live without beliefs.

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@FBM,

Quote:

I make best guesses, of course. But that's all they are. Guesses. Then I review the results, accumulate data, etc.

Guesses are based on assumptions. But hey! Welcome to the human race. Your mind computes guesses and makes moral choices. You can therefore relate to step 6 above. How can the body make moral choices?

And incidentally, you prove you deserve a brain.

Quote:

If you believe that it is logically impossible to live a life without beliefs and you have a priori justification for that belief, please present that argument without resorting to yet another straw man or other fallacy. You're making the absolute knowledge claim here, not me. Simply post logical or empirical proof.

I have provided much evidence of the logical inconsistency of your own little religion," Pyrrhonism". You say you keep an open mind about it but your mind is closed to any argument against it. You didn't even SEE the arguments I have made all along???

Let alone understand them. You're hopeless.

And let's face it: I am sick and tired of unfounded accusations of straw manship. All I have done all along is try and understand your ESOTERIC and ELUSIVE sect by translating what I THOUGHT you were saying, to ask validation. To test some of your bizarre ideas, too. You can't stand the heat. Tough luck.

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@Olivier5,

I saw your attempts a logical support for your claims and pointed out faults in them.

Let's think back about a couple of straw men you constructed:

You claimed that I said I don't exist.
You claimed that I said thoughts don't exist.
You claimed that I said I believe that it's possible to live without beliefs.

etc. You didn't ask for clarification; you made accusations, jumped to conclusions, etc. You haven't been trying to learn or collaborate, you've just been trying to prove me wrong.

You seem to be quite frustrated at being unable to demonstrate that I believe something or that it's impossible to live a life without beliefs. You have my sympathy. They're tall tasks.

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@FBM,

'We' can only interpret what you say, and not what you think. You do not make yourself very clear on any position, and when we ask questions, you ignore them or respond with an answer that is unclear based on what you've said before.

Don't blame us for the confusion.

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
I make best guesses, of course. But that's all they are. Guesses. Then I review the results, accumulate data, etc.

Guesses are based on assumptions.

No. Based on the experience of not knowing. You should be able to find the definition of "guess" and "assumption" in practically any decent English dictionary. Guessing requires the awareness of not knowing. Assuming is thinking that you do know without checking up on it first.

3 Replies

@FBM,

Quote:

You claimed that I said I don't exist.

How do you exist, if not as a conscience, self, etc? As a non-self? What is that?

Quote:

You claimed that I said thoughts don't exist.

I never said that. I said that you argued that "free, operative thought" (or something like that) may be an illusion. That's all. I might have shortened that as "thought" in another post for brievity's sake but never "thoughtS".

Quote:

You claimed that I said I believe that it's possible to live without beliefs.

You don't believe it is possible? Oh no, I know! You're not sure whether it is possible or not.

Well keep being unsure. That's not a bad position when you know squat.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

I've repeatedly said that I don't know the ultimate answers, but that I'm instead suspending judgement pending conclusive data or experience. You're the one making unsupported knowledge claims.

1 Reply

@FBM,

Olivier wrote,

Quote:

Guesses are based on assumptions.

You,

Quote:

No. Based on the experience of not knowing

What exactly is "experience of not knowing?"

That you have learned the English language is based on what, exactly?

1 Reply

Why I am an athiest

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