Physics of the Biblical Flood

Reply Tue 30 Apr, 2013 01:06 pm
. A major, global, abrupt and yet unexplained climate event named “4.2 kilo year event”
There were about 4 of these, each with compounding aridity (NO FLOOD ANYWHERE). These events all seem to be localized within specific latitudes about the planet. (Ill leave it to you to consider climatological realities , like the shutting down of deep ocean return currents .) STILL< NO FLOOD EVIDENCE
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Reply Tue 30 Apr, 2013 01:12 pm
You must use CALIBRATED carbon dating and display the full laboratory analysis of this dating (not only a single date that represents the sample's “gravity center”, but the whole range of possible
THis request is lame. MJ doesnt have to provide you with anything YOU ARE THE ONE MAKING THE CLAIMS.
I use C14 every day and the use of C14 will kick you in the ass because of my first post . We know that, by C14/C12/13 ratios, the many ground-water basins all over the planet share dates that far exceed your "Tel" assertion.

Several geologists have looked at the SPhinx and said that a rainfall event of about 8K years ago was responsible for the type opf erosion we see on the flanks of the sphinx. (Rainfall that gradually ceased, but nowhere in the Upper Egypt area are there any evidences of a flood of that time (There was a huge lake in the SUdan during the late Pleistocene but that was waaay before your assertion date)
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Reply Tue 30 Apr, 2013 01:15 pm
You have not provided me yet with any specific evidence. You are still only supplying general claims.
When I get into a real debate with data, then maybe we'll talk. Im not the one making the claims YOU ARE.
Ive already de fused your
"Theres enough water underground to serve up a flood" That water hasnt moved and Im really weirded out that , if you claim to be a working geophysicist you dont have knowledge of the mechanisms of basin dating

please refer me to web pages that provide more details on these issues

I dont feel that you are challenging us with anything substantive, You are promising data but provide only assertions and more promise. Maybe your typical audience will eat this up but we demand a bit more out of claims.
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Reply Tue 30 Apr, 2013 01:24 pm
I believe that i am correct in saying that the rhetorical device this member is attempting to use is technically known as "baffle 'em with bullsh*t."
Reply Tue 30 Apr, 2013 01:46 pm
Theres an old axiom from one of my old dept chairs when I first started teaching "Why the Hell are you doing all the work for them kids?""
Set up the cases an have em teach themselves -Theyre grad students after all".

That was my Duuuuuhhh moment. (Here too)

Pacer is asking us to provide him with evidence that he will try to knock down with hi assertions.
Im tiured of this, hes been given, How many pages? and all we are doing is dancing around the Maypole.

If his book comes out as a sci fi, OK , weve been buffaloed into providing him data to write up. If hes planning a real honest to goodness science book, Im gonna be really pissed.

So far he is claiming data from Geophysics and geology but has presented NOTHING SUBSTANTIVE. MJ feels his Archeology is also suspect,
And Pacer seems to be wanting to use an aridity point from the HOLOCENE to be the propogation time of a Biblical Flood, and he wants us to provide him data shooting it down. Weve provided enough so he can go back and look **** up. ( ihope his lectures to the Physicists at the Weisman Institute werebetter documented)

Theres a hellofa good page turner there so Im ondering whether this aint some sci fi guy.
Reply Tue 30 Apr, 2013 02:15 pm
farmerman wrote:
Theres a hellofa good page turner there so Im ondering whether this aint some sci fi guy.

Most Sci-Fi guys don't go in for the bible stuff. It makes for bad religion and even worse Sci-Fi.
Reply Tue 30 Apr, 2013 02:25 pm
Anyhow, I expect my fiction to exist within some framework of fact, or at least possibility.
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Reply Tue 30 Apr, 2013 04:56 pm
I disagree, Valis, The Divine Invasion and The Transmigrations Of Timothy Archer all by Philip K Dick, are all very worthwhile. Philip Jose Farmer's Riverworld series isn't half bad either. Behold The Man by Michael Moorcock won the Nebula award.
Reply Tue 30 Apr, 2013 06:41 pm
I tried reading one of the "left Behind" books and found it short on reason but high on speculation . They added just enough science bullshit to try to be interesting and calm down the preaching. Must have worked .the damn books are grossing almost as much as the Harry Potter series
Reply Wed 1 May, 2013 09:11 am
Heres a Time Line of the Post Neolithic through the Iron Age and into Classical ANtiquity. There are several "Timeline" sources in the web. Ju7st key in "Timeline of yatta yatta time,

5200-4000 BC: First farming settlements. Malta. [1] [2]
5200-4500 BC: Ghar Dalam phase The Ghar Dalam phase represents the earliest known farming settlements. [3]
4100-3800 BC: Żebbuġ phase. Malta.
3800-3600 BC: Mġarr phase A short transitional period in Malta's prehistory. It is characterized by pottery consisting of mainly curved lines.
3600-3200 BC: Ġgantija phase Characterized by a change in the way the prehistoric inhabitants of Malta lived.
Circa 3500 BC: Egyptian calendar
3300-3000 BC: Saflieni phase
3300 BC: Bronze Age begins in the Near East[4]
3300 BC: Newgrange Ireland
3300 BC: Hakra Phase of the Indus Valley Civilization begins in the Indian Sub-continent.
3200 BC: Cycladic civilization in Greece
3200 BC: Norte Chico civilization begins in Peru
3200 BC: Rise of Proto-Elamite Civilization in Iran
3100 BC: Skara Brae Scotland
3100 BC: First dynasty of Egypt
c. 3000 BC: Sumerian cuneiform writing system.[5]
c. 3000 BC: Stonehenge construction begins. In its first version, it consisted of a circular ditch and bank, with 56 wooden posts.[6]
c. 3000 BC: Cucuteni-Trypillian culture in Romania and the Ukraine
3000 BC: Jiroft civilization Begins in Iran
3000 BC: First known use of papyrus by Egyptians
2800 BC: Kot Diji phase of the Indus Valley Civilization begins
2800 BC: Three Sovereigns and Five Emperors period in China
2700 BC: Minoan Civilization ancient palace city Knossos reach 80,000 inhabitants
2700 BC: Rise of Elam in Iran
2700 BC: Pharaonic rule in Egypt begins.
2675 BC: King Khufu completes construction of Great Pyramid of Giza.
2600 BC: Mature Harappan phase of the Indus Valley civilization (in present-day Pakistan and India) begins
2600 BC: Emergence of Maya culture in the Yucatán Peninsula
2600 BC: Completion of the Great Pyramid of Giza.
2500 BC: The mammoth goes extinct.
2200 BC: completion of Stonehenge.
2070 BC: Yu the Great established the Xia Dynasty in China
2000 BC: Domestication of the horse
1800 BC: alphabetic writing emerges
1700 BC: Indus Valley Civilization comes to an end but is continued by the Cemetery H culture; The beginning of Poverty Point Civilization in North America
1600 BC: Mycenaean Greece
1600 BC: The beginning of Shang Dynasty in China, evidence of a fully developed Chinese writing system
1600 BC: Beginning of Hittite dominance of the Eastern Mediterranean region
1500 BC: Composition of the Rigveda is completed
1400-400 BC: Olmec civilization flourishes in Pre-Columbian Mexico, during Mesoamerica's Formative period
1200 BC: The Hallstatt culture
1100 BC: Use of Iron spreads
c. 1180 BC: Disintegration of Hittite Empire
1046 BC: The Zhou force (led by King Wu of Zhou) overthrow the last king of Shang Dynasty; Zhou Dynasty established in China
1020 to 930 BC: The beginning of the Kingdom of Israel (united monarchy) occurred sometime between these dates
890 BC: Approximate date for the composition of the Iliad and the Odyssey
800 BC: Rise of Greek city-states
[edit] Classical AntiquityMain article: Classical antiquity
Classical antiquity is a broad term for a long period of cultural history centered on the Mediterranean Sea, comprising the interlocking civilizations of Ancient Greece and Ancient Rome. It refers to the timeframe of ancient Greece and ancient Rome.[7][8] Ancient history includes the recorded Greek history beginning in about 776 BC (First Olympiad). This coincides roughly with the traditional date of the founding of Rome in 753 BC and the beginning of the history of Rome.[9][10]

776 BC: First recorded Olympic Games. The history of the Games is believed to reach as far back as the 13th century BC but no older written record survives.[citation needed]
753 BC: Founding of Rome (traditional date)
745 BC: Tiglath-Pileser III becomes the new king of Assyria. With time he conquers neighboring countries and turns Assyria into an empire
728 BC: Rise of the Median Empire
722 BC: Spring and Autumn Period begins in China; Zhou Dynasty's power is diminishing; the era of the Hundred Schools of Thought
700 BC: the construction of Marib Dam in Arabia Felix
660 BC: purported date of the accession of Jimmu, the mythical first Emperor of Japan
653 BC: Rise of Persian Empire
612 BC: An alliance between the Babylonians, Medes, and Scythians succeeds in destroying Ninaveh and causing subsequent fall of the Assyrian empire.
600 BC: Sixteen Maha Janapadas ("Great Realms" or "Great Kingdoms") emerge in India.
600 BC: Evidence of writing system appear in Oaxaca used by the Zapotec civilization
c. 600 BC: Pandyan kingdom in South India
586 BC: Destruction of the First Temple in Jerusalem (Solomon's Temple) by the Babylonians
563 BC: Siddhartha Gautama (Buddha), founder of Buddhism is born as a prince of the Shakya tribe, which ruled parts of Magadha, one of the Maha Janapadas
551 BC: Confucius, founder of Confucianism, is born
550 BC: Foundation of the Persian Empire by Cyrus the Great
549 BC: Mahavira, founder of Jainism is born
546 BC: Cyrus the Great overthrows Croesus King of Lydia
544 BC: Rise of Magadha as the dominant power under Bimbisara.
539 BC: The Fall of the Babylonian Empire and liberation of the Jews by Cyrus the Great
529 BC: Death of Cyrus
525 BC: Cambyses II of Persia conquers Egypt
c. 512 BC: Darius I (Darius the Great) of Persia, subjugates eastern Thrace, Macedonia submits voluntarily, and annexes Libya, Persian Empire at largest extent
509 BC: Expulsion of the last King of Rome, founding of Roman Republic (traditional date)
508 BC: Democracy instituted at Athens
c. 500 BC: completion of Euclid's Elements
500 BC: Panini standardizes the grammar and morphology of Sanskrit in the text Ashtadhyayi. Panini's standardized Sanskrit is known as Classical Sanskrit
500 BC: Pingala uses zero and binary numeral system
499 BC: King Aristagoras of Miletus incites all of Hellenic Asia Minor to rebel against the Persian Empire, beginning the Greco-Persian Wars.
490 BC: Greek city-states defeat Persian invasion at Battle of Marathon
483 BC: Death of Gautama Buddha
480 BC: Persian invasion of Greece by Xerxes; Battles of Thermopylae and Salamis
479 BC: Death of Confucius
475 BC: Warring States Period begins in China as the Zhou king became a mere figurehead; China is annexed by regional warlords
469 BC: Birth of Socrates
465 BC: Murder of Xerxes
458 BC: The Oresteia by Aeschylus, the only surviving trilogy of ancient Greek plays, is performed.
449 BC: The Greco-Persian Wars end.
447 BC: Building of the Parthenon at Athens started
432 BC: Construction of the Parthenon is completed
431 BC: Beginning of the Peloponnesian war between the Greek city-states
429 BC: Sophocles's play Oedipus the King is first performed
427 BC: Birth of Plato
424 BC: Nanda dynasty comes to power.
404 BC: End of the Peloponnesian War
400 BC: Zapotec culture flourishes around city of Monte Albán
399 BC: Death of Socrates
384 BC: Birth of Aristotle
331 BC: Alexander the Great defeats Darius III of Persia in the Battle of Gaugamela, completing his conquest of Persia.
326 BC: Alexander the Great defeats Indian king Porus in the Battle of the Hydaspes River.
323 BC: Death of Alexander the Great at Babylon.
321 BC: Chandragupta Maurya overthrows the Nanda Dynasty of Magadha.
305 BC: Chandragupta Maurya seizes the satrapies of Paropanisadai (Kabul), Aria (Herat), Arachosia (Qanadahar) and Gedrosia (Baluchistan)from Seleucus I Nicator, the Macedonian satrap of Babylonia, in return for 500 elephants.
300 BC: Construction of the world's largest pyramid, the Great Pyramid of Cholula, begins in Cholula, Puebla, Mexico.
273 BC: Ashoka the Great becomes the emperor of the Mauryan Empire
257 BC: Thục Dynasty takes over Việt Nam (then Kingdom of Âu Lạc)
250 BC: Rise of Parthia (Ashkâniân), the second native dynasty of ancient Persia
232 BC: Death of Emperor Ashoka the Great; Decline of the Mauryan Empire
230 BC: Emergence of Satavahanas in South India
221 BC: Qin Shi Huang unifies China, end of Warring States Period; marking the beginning of Imperial rule in China which lasts until 1912. Construction of the Great Wall by the Qin Dynasty begins.
207 BC: Kingdom of Nan Yueh extends from North Việt Nam to Canton.
206 BC: Han Dynasty established in China, after the death of Qin Shi Huang; China in this period officially becomes a Confucian state and opens trading connections with the West, i.e. the Silk Road.
202 BC: Scipio Africanus defeats Hannibal at Battle of Zama.
200 BC: El Mirador, largest early Maya city, flourishes.
c. 200 BC: Chera dynasty in South India.
185 BC: Sunga Empire founded.
149-146 BC: Third Punic War between Rome and Carthage. War ends with the complete destruction of Carthage, allowing Rome to conquer modern day Tunisia and Libya.
146 BC: Roman conquest of Greece, see Roman Greece
129 BC: Roman conquest of Turkey.
121 BC: Roman armies enter Gaul for the first time.
111 BC: First Chinese domination of Việt Nam in the form of the Nanyue Kingdom.
c. 100 BC: Chola dynasty rises in prominence.
80 BC: The city of Florence is founded.
49 BC: Roman Civil War between Julius Caesar and Pompey the Great.
44 BC: Julius Caesar murdered by Marcus Brutus and others; End of Roman Republic; beginning of Roman Empire.
40 BC: Roman conquest of Egypt.
18 BC: Three Kingdoms period begins in Korea.
6 BC: Earliest theorized date for birth of Jesus of Nazareth.
4 BC: Widely accepted date (Ussher) for birth of Jesus Christ.
9: Battle of the Teutoburg Forest, the Imperial Roman Army's bloodiest defeat.
14: Death of Emperor Augustus (Octavian), ascension of his son Tiberius to the throne.
24: The temple of Jerusalem is reconstructed.
30-34: Crucifixion of Jesus Christ, exact date unknown.
37: Death of Emperor Tiberius, ascension of his nephew Caligula to the throne.
40: Rome conquers Morocco.
41: Emperor Caligula is assassinated by the Roman senate. His uncle Claudius succeeds him.
43: Rome enters Britain for the first time.
54: Emperor Claudius dies and is succeeded by his grand nephew Nero.
68: Emperor Nero commits suicide, prompting the Year of the four emperors in Rome.
70: Destruction of Jerusalem by the armies of Titus.
79: Destruction of Pompeii by the volcano Vesuvius.
98: After a two year rule, Emperor Nerva dies of natural causes, his adopted son Trajan succeeds him.
106-117: Roman Empire at largest extent under Emperor Trajan after having conquered modern-day Romania, Iraq and Armenia.
117: Trajan dies of natural causes. His adopted son Hadrian succeeds him. Hadrian pulls out of Iraq and Armenia.
126: Hadrian completes the Pantheon in Rome.
138: Hadrian dies of natural causes. His adopted son Antoninus Pius succeeds him.
161: Death of Antoninus Pius. His rule was the only one in which Rome did not fight in a war.
192: Kingdom of Champa in Central Việt Nam.
200s: The Buddhist Srivijaya Empire established in Maritime Southeast Asia.
220: Three Kingdoms period begins in China after the fall of Han Dynasty.
226: Fall of the Parthian Empire and Rise of the Sassanian Empire.
238: Defeat of Gordian III (238–244), Philip the Arab (244–249), and Valerian (253–260), by Shapur I of Persia, (Valerian was captured by the Persians).
280: Emperor Wu established Jin Dynasty providing a temporary unity of China after the devastating Three Kingdoms period.
285: Diocletian becomes emperor of Rome and splits the Roman Empire into Eastern and Western Empires.
285: Diocletian begins the biggest prosecution of Christians in Roman history.
292: The capital of the Roman empire is officially moved from Rome to Mediolanum (modern day Milan).
313: Edict of Milan declared that the Roman Empire would be neutral toward religious worship.
325: Constantine I organises the First Council of Nicaea.
330: Constantinople is officially named and becomes the capital of the eastern Roman Empire.
335: Samudragupta becomes the emperor of the Gupta empire.
337: Emperor Constantine I dies, leaving his sons Constantius II, Constans I, and Constantine II as the emporers of the Roman empire.
350: Constantius II is left sole emperor with the death of his two brothers.
354: Birth of Augustine of Hippo
361: Constantius II dies, his cousin Julian succeeds him.
378: Battle of Adrianople, Roman army is defeated by the Germanic tribes.
380: Roman Emperor Theodosius I declares the Arian faith of Christianity heretical. Traditional date for the founding of the Catholic Church.
395: Theodosius I outlaws all pagan religions in favor of Christianity.
406: Romans are expelled from Britain.
407-409: Visigoths and other Germanic tribes cross into Roman-Gaul for the fist time.
410: Visigoths sacks Rome for the first time since 390 BC.
415: Germanic tribes enter Spain.
429: Vandals enter North Africa from Spain for the first time
439: Vandals have conquered the land stretching from Morocco to Tunisia by this time.
455: Vandals sack Rome, capture Sicily and Sardinia.
c. 455: Skandagupta repels an Indo-Hephthalite attack on India.
476: Romulus Augustus, last Western Roman Emperor is forced to abdicate by Odoacer, a chieftain of the Germanic Heruli; Odoacer returns the imperial regalia to Eastern Roman Emperor Zeno in Constantinople in return for the title of dux of Italy; most frequently cited date for the end of ancient history
Reply Wed 1 May, 2013 09:13 am
The point is, I carefully scanned the list to see where "WORLDWIDE FLOOD" appears and, much to my diwmay, theyve just ignored the entire event.. Yet we knew the approximate time the last Mammoth died. (It was a day off for most of the people)
Reply Wed 1 May, 2013 10:00 am

Physics of the Biblical Flood?

This would be one of the necessary starting points...

Reply Wed 1 May, 2013 10:39 am
gungasnake wrote:

Physics of the Biblical Flood?

This would be one of the necessary starting points...


Pretty cool objects, but how do they relate to the Biblical Flood?

These objects form around very young stars (which our sun is not), 80% of which are binaries (which ours is not), and project along the rotational axis (which earth is not in line with), and interact with existing dust clouds (of which there are none in our solar system).

And even if one did exist there's no reason to think (or evidence to support) that such a phenomena would cause ground water to inexplicably leap from the earth's mantle and cause a giant flood.
Reply Wed 1 May, 2013 11:41 am
Why the completion of Henge and not the beginning? That would put us back to 3100BC
Reply Wed 1 May, 2013 11:51 am
Pretty cool objects, but how do they relate to the Biblical Flood?

They relate to the way in which matter in space (99 point something percent of the mass of the universe is in plasma form) forms up into galaxies, strings of galaxies, stars, and solar systems such as our own. In real life, it is twisted pairs of electrical currents (Birkeland currents) and the pinch effect which they generate which actually agglomerates plasma into solid objects. Gravity, which is by 40 orders of magnitude the weakest force in nature, has no power to create stars or planets out of plasma or even dust.

Herbig/Haro objects appear to be the most common form in which you would find an early solar system.
Reply Wed 1 May, 2013 04:27 pm
Why the completion of Henge and not the beginning? That would put us back to 3100BC

I imagine that , for the answer to that specific question, youd need to ask those who compiled the Timeline.
I was just looking for something in the BC newspapers that Herolded the BIBLICAL FLOOD.

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Reply Wed 1 May, 2013 04:29 pm
I see that youre still pitching your electric universe.
Explain, if you will, (IN ENGLISH) how the electric universe negates science.
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Reply Wed 1 May, 2013 05:07 pm
The henge on Salisbury plain was probably not a stone henge until sometime after 5000 ybp. The holes dug there about 5000 ybp may have contained blue stones, but there is little evidence for that* (see below), and none that blue stones were worked at that site. It is more likely that the holes dug at 5000 ybp were post holes, and that that was the period of the most elaborate wood henge.

There are bluestone erratics all over the island, but the surviving bluestones which were used in the construction of the henge came from the Preseli Hills in what is now Wales. The only bluestone rock chips in the area earlier the arrival of the Preseli blustones are from tool making. The amount of feldspar in the Preseli bluestones makes them unmistakable. The Amesbury Archer burials and the Boscombe Bowmen burials are considered strong evidence that the Preseli bluestones were transported to the area, especially as there is little geological evidence for erractics of that number and size there. The two burial sites date to about 4300 ybp, and as the grave goods are very rich--chert arrowheads, flint knapping tools, small copper knivess (thought to be ceremonial due to the small size) and beakers--it is surmised (no hard evidence) that both the Amesbury Archer and his "son" (a second, later burial of an individual about 20 years younger sharing a notable physical anomaly) and the Boscombe Bowmen (seven or eight individuals with one burial surrounded by six or seven in a ring abound that individual) represent "outsiders" who were nevertheless considered very important. (Hence, the rich grave goods.) Whether or not it is correct to associate these burials with the arrival of the bluestones is purely a matter of speculation* (see below).

It appears that the local builders had only recently begun using stone, having built wood henges previously. The use of stone probably dates to a period one to three centuries before the burials. It was also at about this time that local stone, the sarsens, began to be used. *There is now compelling evidence from compresion studies that the first bluestones may have been used as long ago as 5000 ybp, but that is still controversial.
Reply Wed 1 May, 2013 05:16 pm
By the way, what i find much more interesting is the evidence for the importance of the henge. Archaeological excavations in the last decade have uncovered middens with animal remains of juvenile, large game animals--their teeth indicate that they were either not yet a year old, or just more than a year old. Strontium isotope analysis shows that some of these animals were brought from as far away as the Scots Highlands. The historical synthesis hypothesis is that thousands of people traveled there for the winter solstice and summer solstice celebration, from all over the island. It also suggested that the site was very important when it was still a wood henge, before the building in stone began.
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Reply Thu 2 May, 2013 04:37 am
Ive always wanted to spend some time and look where the bluestones came from. Thanks set, whered you get the info on the provenance of the bluestone?

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