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Aussies, Hide Your Steak Knives

 
 
cjhsa
 
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2004 04:18 pm
Weapons Bans Miss the Mark
John R. Lott Jr.
The Australian
March 24, 2004

AUSTRALIANS are a dangerous lot. Weapons that would hardly cause a second thought in the hands of a citizen in another country generate concern when held by an Australian.

Fortunately, some Australian state governments have understood the dangers of letting ordinary Australians get access to weapons such as laser pointers, a popular device for making business and academic presentations in countries such as the US.

Americans may feel safe when an academic addresses a conference using a laser pointer. In the hands of an Australian, however, there is understandable fear that these devices could do untold harm. An Australian academic with a laser pointer would cause real panic.

Now the Victorian Government is achieving international recognition for
protecting Australians from a danger that has been around for far too
long: swords. After July 1, swords will be banned and violators will
face penalties that previously have been reserved for laser pointers -
six months in jail and a $12,000 fine.

Swords are broadly defined as a cutting or thrusting weapon with a long
blade, a hilt and one or two sharp edges. Although this unfortunately
exempts knives with either no sharp or three or more sharp edges, or
knives without handles, not specifying a blade length in the
legislation hopefully ensures many knives will be banned.

A licensing pocess will be set up so that a select few will be granted
an exemption and pay a $135 fee, but they will have to lock their
weapons in sturdy safes and put in burglar alarms. If properly
enforced, the law could produce other benefits, such as ensuring that
dishes are promptly washed after dinner so that any offending steak
knives can be placed back in their safe. On the downside, the knives
would still be available during dinner when many family arguments might
get out of hand. It is also not clear if the family will be able to use
the knives if the licence holder is not present.

And if Australians can't be trusted with laser pointers or swords, they
surely can't be trusted with guns. Citizens in other countries are
obviously much more trustworthy. Americans, for example, can own all
these items. Indeed, 46 states in the US even trust millions of
law-abiding Americans to carry concealed handguns when walking on the
street or eating in restaurants.

And, yes, in most states an academic addressing a conference or a class
can carry a gun along with a laser pointer. Over the decades, concealed
handgun permit holders in the US have proven to be extremely
law-abiding, losing their permits at only hundredths of thousandths of
one percentage point for any type of firearms related violation.

If dangerous weapons made citizens in other countries dangerous, no one
would visit Switzerland. There, all able-bodied men between the ages of
20 and 42 are trusted to keep a machinegun in their homes as part of
their military service. (Not the wimpy centre-fire semi-automatic
rifles everyone is afraid to trust Australians with.) Yet the trust in
the Swiss is well placed. Switzerland has one of the lowest murder
rates in Europe.

Letting law-abiding citizens in the US and Switzerland own guns lowers
crime because would-be victims are able to deter criminals or, if
confronted, protect themselves. Australians are clearly quite
different. They understand the risks of letting Australians own guns.
The International Crime Vitimisation Survey shows that Australia's
violent crime rate is already twice that of the US or Switzerland.
Australia's violent crime rate is about as high as England's, a country
that bans handguns.

It would be simple enough just to blame Australia's high crime rates on
its largely English heritage or its convict history, but for much of
the past century Australia had lower crime rates than the US or the UK.
Violent crime rates have gone up dramatically in Australia since the
1996 Port Arthur gun control measures. And violent crime rates averaged
20 per cent higher in the six years after the law was passed (from 1997
to 2002) than they did in 1996, 32 per cent higher than the violent
crime rates in 1995. The same comparisons for armed robbery rates
showed increases of 67 per cent and 74 per cent, respectively; for
aggravated assault, 20 per cent and 32 per cent; for rape, 11 per cent
and 12 per cent; murder, attempted murder and manslaughter rose by 5
per cent in both cases.

Perhaps six years of crime data is just not enough to evaluate the
experience. Yet Australian governments seem to believe that if gun
controls don't work at first, more and stricter regulations (like
getting rid of swords) are surely the solution. Remember, never
second-guess government regulations.

While the ban on swords is modelled on the gun control measures, the
Victorian Government obviously hopes that its new measure is more
successful in reducing crime. Australian gun laws also require people
to lock their guns in safes and ban many types of guns. But requiring
an alarm for storing any swords, unlike the 15 or more rule for guns in
Victoria, is a nice touch and may make the crucial difference.

Metal swords have been around since the Bronze Age, 4600 years ago. Yet
citizens in few countries have so clearly posed dangers to themselves
and it is fortunate that Victoria recognises this.

Possibly, Australians can turn now to solving some really important
problems. One suggestion: 240-volt electrical currents can killyou. Is
it really true that Australians have these overpowering urges to try
sticking metal in electrical sockets?

John Lott Jr, a resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute
in Washington, is author of More Guns, Less Crime (University of
Chicago Press, 2000) and The Bias Against Guns (AEI Press, 2003).
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2004 04:31 pm
It may be of interest that such a law exists in Switzerand since 1999 (Waffengesetz AS 1998 2538), which became even stronger in 2002 (Waffengesetz 2001).

By this, Switzerland had upgraded the Gun Control Legislation to EU, a. k. a. German standards.
0 Replies
 
Tarantulas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Mar, 2004 12:39 am
I wonder why they decided to get rid of swords. Maybe they were having a lot of "sword violence" incidents?

I also wonder what a law-abiding (therefore disarmed) Australian citizen can do to defend himself when confronted by a weapon-carrying Australian criminal. I guess they have to look around on the ground for a stick or a rock to use to defend themselves against a knife or a gun. Laws like these disarm the law-abiding citizen and give the criminal more assurance that whoever he decides to attack will have no self-defense weapons.

I'm sure glad I don't live in Australia, although the one time I was there in 1977 it seemed like a nice place. I'm also glad I don't live in the crime capitols of the United States - Chicago, New York City, and Washington, D.C., cities that coincidentally have strict gun control laws. I'm glad I live in the great state of Arizona, where I can walk down the street with a gun on my hip and no one will be the slightest bit worried about it. And if I have no criminal history and no history of insanity, the state is required to issue me a concealed weapons permit after I take a training course on the law and show that I can use my gun in a competent manner. And the criminals know this.

Life is good!

(I have nothing but respect for John Lott, but I did see a website that said the numbers in this report were manipulated to make his point. If I can find that again I will post it.)
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Mar, 2004 01:02 am
Tarantulas wrote:
I also wonder what a law-abiding (therefore disarmed) Australian citizen can do to defend himself when confronted by a weapon-carrying Australian criminal. I guess they have to look around on the ground for a stick or a rock to use to defend themselves against a knife or a gun. Laws like these disarm the law-abiding citizen and give the criminal more assurance that whoever he decides to attack will have no self-defense weapons.


You may not be aware of it, Tarantulas, but besides in the USA there are worldwide strict weapon laws :wink:
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Mar, 2004 04:20 am
Tarantula


Swords have become a favoured weapon of some youth gangs in Melbourne. There have been a growing number of "incidents" that have caused public alarm. A couple of weeks ago a young man had his hand amputated (then surgically re-attached in a hospital!). apparently a growing number of young people now carry knives for "protection".
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Mar, 2004 05:06 am
Don't bother, Msolga - there is a chasm set.....lol...
0 Replies
 
Tarantulas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Mar, 2004 08:40 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
You may not be aware of it, Tarantulas, but besides in the USA there are worldwide strict weapon laws :wink:

Yes, I know that some countries have restricted their citizens' self-defense capabilities. It's a shame, too...
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PUBLICATION: The Daily News (Halifax)
DATE: 2004.01.23
SECTION: Perspective
PAGE: 16
BYLINE: Moore, Charles

As gun ownership declines, home invasions increase

We won't know full details of what happened to John Wyllie until his accused killers go to trial. But what we do know is that the Lawrencetown paramedic was slain in his own home by intruders, and that's something that should never happen to anyone.

Increasing incidence of home invasion is emblematic of something else as well: the fact that the government should be promoting gun ownership rather than spending more than $1 billion harassing and discouraging gun owners. Why?

Because it is a fact that as gun ownership declines, home invasions increase, like they have here in Nova Scotia as our society is relentlessly subverted by an ideological agenda that would have us discard the millennia-old principle of self-defence of one's home and family, replacing it with essentially bovine defenselessness. We now reap the consequences of this folly.

The social-liberal authors of the gathering anarchy of our age have nothing to say when confronted by robbers and killers who do it for no other reason than they like doing it, have a good chance of getting away with it or will receive relatively mild punishment if they don't.

Diminishing effectiveness

The rise in lawlessness has coincided with the diminishing punitive effectiveness of our justice system.

Getting back to my argument about guns, I don't know if Wyllie had a gun, or, if he did, whether he would have had the opportunity or inclination to use it in self-defence. The particulars of that tragic incident are not my point here, which is that when a large proportion of homes in a community can be assumed to have guns, home invasions are far less likely to occur, even in homes that don't have guns.

Criminals fear armed homeowners, and non-gun owners benefit from an umbrella of protection provided by their neighbours who own firearms. Simply put: the more guns, the safer the community.

Within five years of Great Britain introducing strict new gun-control legislation in 1988, the rate of legal, private gun-ownership declined by 22.4 per cent, while violent crime rose by 33.6 per cent, robbery 80.6 per cent and robbery with a gun 117 per cent.

Rates of violent assault, sexual assault, armed robbery and home invasion in Canada and the U.K. (which have relatively restrictive gun control) are higher than in the United States, where the rate of legal gun ownership is high, and 38 states allow the carrying of concealed weapons. A United Nations survey revealed that England and Wales, with the strictest anti-gun legislation of any major country, have the highest crime rate of the world's 20 most-developed nations.

The U.S. anti-gun Brady Foundation argues that while about 29 per cent of adult Americans own a firearm, and 18 per cent own a handgun, when someone is at home, a gun is used for protection in fewer than two per cent of home invasion crimes. The foundation is missing the point, which is that the high rate of U.S. gun ownership almost certainly discourages home invasions in the first place.

Prefer victims to be home

American burglars usually make sure no victims are home. Canadian and British burglars, however, prefer their victims be home, so wallets and purses can be stolen, too. In the U.S., the percentage of household burglaries occurring when the home is occupied has been surveyed at an admirably low 13 per cent. In Great Britain, with a low rate of gun ownership, 59 per cent of burglaries occur when the homeowner is home. In Canada, the rate was 44 per cent.

Switzerland has a higher rate of gun-ownership than the U.S., and virtually no gun crime. A landmark 1997 study by John Lott, a fellow in law and economics at the University of Chicago Law School, determined that when permits to carry concealed firearms are available to citizens in a county, murders fell by 7.65 per cent, rapes fell by 5.2 per cent, robberies fell by 2.2 per cent, and aggravated assaults fell seven per cent.

A home or business owner who defends his or her property and life against predators by whatever force is necessary, including deadly force, should be considered a hero by his or her neighbours and fellow citizens. Unfortunately, in the morally perverse, through-the-looking-glass culture of social liberalism, such a person is more likely to be punished instead. There's something very wrong with this picture.
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Quote:
Swords have become a favoured weapon of some youth gangs in Melbourne. There have been a growing number of "incidents" that have caused public alarm. A couple of weeks ago a young man had his hand amputated (then surgically re-attached in a hospital!). apparently a growing number of young people now carry knives for "protection".

HOLY [expletive deleted]!!! That would be scary, walking down a dark street and being confronted with some drug-crazed kid carrying a sword, especially if you had no way to defend yourself. I just looked through our state laws and I'm not sure how a sword would be classified. It doesn't seem like they are prohibited (at least not here in Arizona), maybe because "sword violence" here is almost unheard of. Here is the only case I can remember, but it happened in California.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Mar, 2004 09:02 am
Tarantulas wrote:

Yes, I know that some countries have restricted their citizens' self-defense capabilities. It's a shame, too...


You may wonder: the citizens living there, are quite content with this (besides the criminal one's :wink:). Seems, only US-Americans are mocking about it Laughing
0 Replies
 
Tarantulas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Mar, 2004 09:18 am
That article comes from the newspaper "The Daily News (Halifax)" which is a Canadian publication. The article was posted in MODERATOR (Edit) Do Not post links to other forums. and you will find a whole group of Canadian citizens in that thread providing plenty of "mocking."
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Mar, 2004 10:40 am
To the aussies on this thread - this kind of law is simply ridiculous. Do you have any idea how stupid you look to ban swords? They'll just sharpen broomsticks next. Stupid is as stupid does.
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Tarantulas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Mar, 2004 10:58 am
Quote:
MODERATOR (Edit) Do Not post links to other forums.

Whaaa...?????

Please link me to the area where this policy is listed. It appears that I am unaware of one or more special rules for this board.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Mar, 2004 11:06 am
Tarantulas wrote:
Whaaa...?????

Please link me to the area where this policy is listed. It appears that I am unaware of one or more special rules for this board.


The terms of use (TOS) are to be found at the bottom of the page.

And when you are unaware of these rules - you signed them when becoming a member.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Mar, 2004 11:09 am
The rules seem to have changed a bit recently Walter. You may want to reread them yourself.

I had a thread deleted the other day because they felt it was an advertisement, even though the TOS explicity says one can offer advice on products just so long as you announce any affiliation you may have with the company. I had none, it was just something I bought off the shelf and found to work well. So, I'm a bit confused as well.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Mar, 2004 11:11 am
cjhsa wrote:
The rules seem to have changed a bit recently Walter. You may want to reread them yourself.


Why, did you notice that I acted against them?
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Mar, 2004 11:13 am
No, just suggesting you reread them.
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Tarantulas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Mar, 2004 12:45 pm
I'm still not seeing anything in the TOS that says "Do Not post links to other forums." Is there a third set of rules somewhere besides the TOS and the posting guidelines at the top of this forum?
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Mar, 2004 12:55 pm
There have been some changes in the moderator personnel.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Mar, 2004 01:04 pm
Well, I haven't heard of that (which doesn't mean a lot).

But, Tarantulas, just use the contact link and ask.
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Tarantulas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Mar, 2004 01:19 pm
Okay, will do, thanks.

Sorry to derail the thread.

Umm...errrr...guns are good! Discuss. Very Happy
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Mar, 2004 03:37 pm
Well, cjhsa and tarantalus, I am happy to look foolish to people who are anti-gun control - you see, foolishness in such matters depends upon where you are sitting.

The US looks ridiculous in these matters to most of the world...

C'est la vie...
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