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Naysayers! Believers! Draw your swords!

Forums: Debate, Bible, Beliefs, Scripture
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Mar, 2013 05:16 pm
@Frank Apisa,
En garde! . ..
Ice Demon
 
  2  
Reply Sat 23 Mar, 2013 05:17 pm
@neologist,
Pikachu, I choose you.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Mar, 2013 05:21 pm
@Ice Demon,
Uh Oh! I'm not up on these pokey things. Is that like when I poke my grandsons on Facebook?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Mar, 2013 05:32 pm
So what, Neo, you didn't think there was enough strife around here?

As you know, i'm not motivated by any religious beliefs.
MattDavis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Mar, 2013 05:34 pm
@neologist,
Seems an awfully violent image for a theological discussion.
What is the point of posting pictures of a weapon?
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Mar, 2013 05:49 pm
@MattDavis,
Most folks here know I'm a nut case. The tilt of the thread is 'Draw your swords!' after all.
BTW,
Edgar and I go way back. He knows I would rather slit my own throat than harm anybody.
MattDavis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Mar, 2013 05:50 pm
@neologist,
I hope you would do neither.
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Sat 23 Mar, 2013 05:52 pm
@MattDavis,
He's a great guy, Matt. But his views on religion are a bit hard to fathom.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Mar, 2013 05:54 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

So what, Neo, you didn't think there was enough strife around here?

As you know, i'm not motivated by any religious beliefs.


Lot of good swordsmen lining up here,I see.

0 Replies
 
tenderfoot
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Mar, 2013 06:02 pm
@MattDavis,
MattDavis wrote:

Regarding 2 Timothy 3:16
Here is the KJV with Strong's numbers.
AllG3956 scriptureG1124 is given by inspiration of God,G2315 andG2532 is profitableG5624 forG4314 doctrine,G1319 forG4314 reproof,G1650 forG4314 correction,G1882 forG4314 instructionG3809 inG1722 righteousness:G1343

This is the "original" in Greek. In this word order. Also with Strong's numbers.
πασαG3956 A-NSF γραφηG1124 N-NSF θεοπνευστοςG2315 A-NSF καιG2532 CONJ ωφελιμοςG5624 A-NSM προςG4314 PREP διδασκαλιανG1319 N-ASF προςG4314 PREP ελεγχονG1650 N-ASM προςG4314 PREP επανορθωσινG1882 N-ASF προςG4314 PREP παιδειανG3809 N-ASF τηνG3588 T-ASF ενG1722 PREP δικαιοσυνηG1343 N-DSF

From the context of the chapter is seem clear that this and the very next "verse" are a part of the same "sentence". Here is a little closer translation IMHO:
2Ti 3:16-17
All Scripture (probably reference to Hebrew and some of Paul's works) is God-breathed (inspired) and profitable (beneficial) for doctrine (teaching method), for convincing, for correction (bringing other's into line), for instruction in righteousness, so that the man of God (people of Theos) may be perfected (completed, also in a sense re-freshened), being fully furnished for every good work (beneficial actions).

The bulk of the 3rd chapter in 2 Timothy seems an appeal to correct the behavior of other followers of Paul's teachings. It seems primarily a call toward ethical behavior, using the authority of Hebrew and Pauline texts to add validity.


I could not agree more with your concept of the above, But, I cannot understand the need for religiosity paperwork in the first place and certainly don't understand the need to minutely dissect.... word by word sections of supposedly Godly statements to make sense in the English language... seems a impossible task to me.
MattDavis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Mar, 2013 06:04 pm
@edgarblythe,
Edgar wrote:
He's a great guy, Matt.
Neologist wrote:
Lot of good swordsmen lining up here,I see.

Very well.....
..... En garde!

0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Mar, 2013 06:06 pm
@MattDavis,
MattDavis wrote:

neo wrote:
Jehovah is God's personal name.

That's news to me. Where does that word appear in scripture?

Check Psalms 83:18 in the KJV

Whenever you see the word LORD in caps in KJV, it is where the translators have seen fit to over write Jehovah's name.

Lord, god, senator . . . all titles. As is satan, resistor . . .
Want a personal relationship with the true God? My recommendation is to use his name.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Mar, 2013 06:11 pm
@tenderfoot,
You make a good point, tenderfoot. After all, the Bible was written, not as a conundrum to be dissected by scholars, or a mystery to be understood only by priests, but as a guide for the least sophisticated of us to understand why we have war and crime and sickness and death and what God intends to do about it.
0 Replies
 
MattDavis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Mar, 2013 06:17 pm
@neologist,
יהוה
You would like to pronounce this Jehovah.
Makes no difference (to me) whether it is pronounced Yehweh or Jehovah.

Here is the consensus understanding of pronunciation of that word from Hebrew:
yeh-ho-vaw'

What crossing out are you talking about?
The Bible wasn't written in English.
Psalms was written in a Hebrew dialect.
MattDavis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Mar, 2013 06:22 pm
@neologist,
Neologist wrote:
Want a personal relationship with the true God? My recommendation is to use his name.
Neologist wrote:
... but as a guide for the least sophisticated of us to understand why we have war and crime and sickness and death and what God intends to do about it.

Which is it? Is the Bible important to understand in minute detail, such as the pronunciation of יהוה
Or not?
It seems to me if you wanted a personal relationship with God, and you thought God wrote a book, you might bother to learn the languages God wrote it in.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Mar, 2013 06:39 pm
@MattDavis,
Well, Jehovah is the most common English pronunciation. Thanks to the ancient scribes and pharisees, the true pronunciation has been lost.

I suppose it is most important to distinguish it from other names, such as Jesus, a seperate individual deriving his name from the compounding of "Jehovah's salvation".

No other person is rightly called "He who causes to become"


MattDavis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Mar, 2013 06:39 pm
@neologist,
My tag: [X] Scripture
0 Replies
 
MattDavis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Mar, 2013 06:48 pm
@neologist,
Ok. So what is the connection then to 2nd Timothy which uses only the term Theos θεός? Or the derivation from Theos of theopneustos θεοπνευστος (meaning breathed into by Theos)?
Theos is conventionally pronounced theh'-os

Neologist wrote:
No other person is rightly called "He who causes to become"

I assume that the epistle of Timothy must not refer to Jehovah/Yahweh then.
Why would the author of the book wrongly refer to God?

Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Mar, 2013 07:15 pm
@neologist,
What the hell do the Pharisees have to do with it? You need to learn more about the Pharisees. Just because your boy Jesus bad-mouthed them is not evidence that they had any influence on language.
neologist
 
  2  
Reply Sat 23 Mar, 2013 10:12 pm
@MattDavis,
MattDavis wrote:

Ok. So what is the connection then to 2nd Timothy which uses only the term Theos θεός? Or the derivation from Theos of theopneustos θεοπνευστος (meaning breathed into by Theos)?
Theos is conventionally pronounced theh'-os

Neologist wrote:
No other person is rightly called "He who causes to become"

I assume that the epistle of Timothy must not refer to Jehovah/Yahweh then.
Why would the author of the book wrongly refer to God?



There are a number of places in the Christian scriptures where it is appropriate to use the name Jehovah.

For example, carefully compare 2Timothy 2:19, quoting Numbers 16:5.

Additionally, it seems most unlikely that the apostles, when using the term ordinarily translated 'God' would be referring to any god other than the Creator.

If you threaten me, I will provide you a few citations where Jesus emphasized his father's name.
 

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