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Obunga DHS preparing for a war?

 
 
gungasnake
 
  0  
Reply Sat 23 Mar, 2013 08:41 am
@ZarathustraReborn,
The whole country is out of 22 ammo, you can't find it.
parados
 
  2  
Reply Sat 23 Mar, 2013 08:44 am
@ZarathustraReborn,
ZarathustraReborn wrote:

"Spending money this way is beyond absurd well into perverse. According to the AP story a DHS spokesperson justifies this acquisition to “help the government get a low price for a big purchase.” Peggy Dixon, spokeswoman for the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center: “The training center and others like it run by the Homeland Security Department use as many as 15 million rounds every year, mostly on shooting ranges and in training exercises.”

At 15 million rounds (which, in itself, is pretty extraordinary and sounds more like fun target-shooting-at-taxpayer-expense than a sensible training exercise) … that’s a stockpile that would last DHS over a century. To claim that it’s to “get a low price” for a ridiculously wasteful amount is an argument that could only fool a career civil servant."


So, there that is.

There is more than one shooting range. Read it again and note the use of the plural. Each range uses 15 million rounds.



You have already stated that they ordered 750,000 and 250,000 in the last 2 years which works out to 1 billion over a 2 year time frame. 1.6 billion over the next 4-5 years is not an increase but would actually be a decrease.
There are over 21,000 border agents and 20,000 employees in ICE. There are over 4000 boarding officers in the Coast Guard and all other 40,000 Coast Guard personnel are authorized to carry weapons under the law. There are over 15,000 guards in the Federal Protective Services that guard federal buildings. And let's not forget the 4,500 Secret Service agents that are also under DHS. I haven't taken the time to look up the number of drug interdiction agents under DHS. DHS also runs the Federal Law Enforcement Training Centers which train personnel from over 90 Federal agencies many of them not under DHS control. (One can assume DHS supplies the bullets for those ranges rather than making each agency bring their own.)

That works out to over 100,000 employees that carry guns and spend time on the range. At 350,000,000 rounds per year for DHS that works out to 3,500 rounds per year per employee. That of course fails to take into account that there are probably over 100,000 other Federal officers that train at DHS facilities.

All told this works out to about 100-150 rounds per month of training per employee.

I wonder how much whining we would get if regular citizens were restricted to only 100 rounds per month of shooting.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=481681
According to this poll 67% shoot more than 250 rounds per month. That doesn't seem excessive to you, does it Zarathustra?
RABEL222
 
  0  
Reply Sat 23 Mar, 2013 09:45 am
@gungasnake,
I've got a 22 long rifle i'll sell you for a buck and a half.
0 Replies
 
ZarathustraReborn
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Mar, 2013 04:36 pm
@parados,
This whole argument is based upon a 15 million a year figure. That 15 million figure is for ALL ranges. That is, yes, 150 rounds per month for EVERY employee under the DHS, at a employment figure of 100,000 people. There are actually 200,000 employees of the DHS, although only about 25% of them would be active, firearms-qualified federal officers. Maybe less. This 200,000 figure includes janitors, analysists, maintenance workers, bureaucrats, secretaries, drivers, administrators, programmers, and an entire array of 20 some other departments where the VAST majority need no firearm.

So, supposing 25% are actually qualified firearm holders who need weapons/training facilities. With a 5 year purchase of ammunition at 1.6 billion, that is 6,400 rounds of ammunition per officer, per year, 534 rounds a month. Law enforcement MANDATORY qualifications are quarterly at most. A large majority of agents do not utilize the training facilities for weeks at a time. So let's further suppose that a large 70% train regularly. That makes each officers monthly ammo allowance to be roughly 700 rounds a month.

These are low estimates and completely unreasonable for an average DHS officer. In two years we purchased a billion rounds. That is close to 1,200 rounds per officer (per month) using the same logistics.

All of this is, of course, saying nothing of the MRAPS.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Mar, 2013 04:51 pm
@ZarathustraReborn,
Quote:
“The training center and others like it run by the Homeland Security Department use as many as 15 million rounds every year, mostly on shooting ranges and in training exercises.”

I don't read that as all centers. I read that as the one training center uses 15 million rounds when placed in context of the full article.

Quote:
There are actually 200,000 employees of the DHS, although only about 25% of them would be active, firearms-qualified federal officers.

I listed 100,000 DHS employees that would carry firearms. The 200,000 figure includes 100,000 other personnel from other agencies that use the training centers. You don't get to subtract persons that actually carry firearms from your numbers. Border agents carry firearms and there are almost 22000 border agents. Secret Service agents carry firearms and there are 4,400. ICE agents, 22000 carry firearms and even if we subtract many of them we still end up with 5,000 . There are over 4,000 boarding agents in the Coast guard and 40,000 others that are authorized by law to carry. I specifically excluded support personnel from my figures.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Mar, 2013 11:03 am
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3000530/posts
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Mar, 2013 11:17 am
@gungasnake,
That's a pretty good example of the idiocy of the Freepers gunga.

DHS solicits bids for 1.6 billion bullets over the next 4-5 years and Freepers claim DHS has already bought 2 billion this year.

If Obama announced a 10 year plan to send men to Mars, Freepers would be up in arms over the invasion force Obama has already sent to Mars.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Mar, 2013 12:38 pm
@gungasnake,
The thread you link refers to has been pulled.
gungasnake
 
  0  
Reply Mon 25 Mar, 2013 01:25 pm
@roger,
Thanks, some sort of a conflict thing...

http://www.infowars.com/dhs-to-buy-360000-more-rounds-of-hollow-point-ammunition/

roger
 
  2  
Reply Mon 25 Mar, 2013 01:48 pm
@gungasnake,
Thanks. They make a good point about hollow points being that much more expensive than for full metal jacketed rounds, especially as this is all for training. They have to be losing their bulk order savings by using unnecessary hollow points.

Hey, maybe there's some economic Keynesian multipler going on here.
parados
 
  0  
Reply Mon 25 Mar, 2013 04:14 pm
@roger,
There are so many facts wrong in the story it makes one wonder if any of them are correct.

DHS has not purchased 2 billion bullets over the last year. It called for bids for 1.6 billion over the next 4-5 years.

They quote a Marine about hollow points when the military is not allowed to use hollow points under the 1899 Hague convention. Law enforcement do use hollow points.

Here's an interesting article that refutes most of that crap written by someone that seems to know about Federal training programs.
http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/8511
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Mar, 2013 04:38 pm
@parados,
but this guy is part of the kill all the Americans conspiracy. He admits to being a government man who cant be trusted.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Mar, 2013 08:59 am
Obunga's concept of a private army:

http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/47844

Quote:
Four years ago this month—on July 2nd, 2008—Obama delivered a speech in Boulder, Colorado in which he promised the creation and establishment of a “Civilian National Security Force.” He further promised it would be “just as powerful, just as strong, just as well funded as the US Military.”....
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Fri 29 Mar, 2013 09:46 am
my gun maker customer was in yesterday telling me about this....also that DHS bought 8,000 assault weapons.

answers are required from our government....you remember, this being the government that we allegedly own.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Fri 29 Mar, 2013 09:53 am
Quote:
As has been reported, the Department of Homeland Security has been buying large amounts of ammunition over the last year, along with 7,000 fully automatic assault rifles. The total amount of ammo purchased come to a little over 2 billion.

While the typical explanation for the purchases is that the rounds are for training, the unusually large amount, coupled with the rounds being hollow points, which are not typically used for target shooting, many remain suspicious of the department's stockpiling of ammo.

Shortly after attention began to be drawn to the purchases, the DHS blacked out information on a solicitation. Blacking out information on a government document is illegal without permission of Congress or for national security reasons.

It now appears as though the DHS has once again censored information on a solicitation. Paul Joseph Watson reported on Friday that the DHS has blacked out information on a solicitation for a five year, $1.5 million no-bid contract with firearms company Remington for firearms replacement parts.

Citing an "unusual and compelling urgency" due to the ongoing ammunition shortage throughout the country that might cause "substantial safety issues for the government," the DHS blacked out information in four sections of the solicitation. The first is the list of how much money will be paid to Remington per year; the second is how many firearms the DHS will be purchasing; the third is how the firearms will be distributed throughout the country; the fourth, Watson writes, "pertains to the government's reluctance to purchase a 'complete firearms replacement system,' instead of using Remington firearms."

Speculation abounds as to why the DHS has ordered so many rounds, with the main belief being that the department is preparing for civil unrest. According to one source, the DHS is expecting this unrest to occur this summer.

To add to the speculation, the department recently purchased "No More Hesitation" paper targets depicting typical Americans with guns, including a pregnant woman, a young mother with her child, a young boy and an old man in his home

http://www.examiner.com/article/dhs-blacks-out-information-on-another-firearms-related-order

alarming this is....
roger
 
  2  
Reply Fri 29 Mar, 2013 09:57 am
The difference in price between FMJ and hollowpoints for training might keep a few control towers in operation at a few airports. Heck, there might be enough left over to let them resume guided tours at the White House.

Nah, those tours probably disrupt the first family.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Fri 29 Mar, 2013 09:59 am
@hawkeye10,
and this

Quote:
In addition to stockpiling over a billion bullets and thousands of semiautomatic weapons the feds would deny U.S. citizens, the vehicle of choice for fighting the counterinsurgency war in Iraq is appearing on U.S. streets.
The sequestration question du jour is why the Department of Homeland Security, busy releasing hundreds, if not thousands, of deportable and detained illegal aliens due to budget constraints, is buying several thousand Mine Resistant Armored Protection (MRAP) vehicles?
And just who are they intended to be used against?
This acquisition comes on top of the recent news of the stockpiling by DHS of more than 1.6 billion (with a 'b') bullets of various calibers, enough by one calculation to fight the equivalent of a 24-year Iraq War, and the ordering of some 7,000 5.56x45mm NATO "personal defense weapons" (PDW) — also known as "assault weapons" when owned by civilians.
Additionally, DHS is asking for 30 round magazines that "have a capacity to hold thirty (30) 5.56x45mm NATO rounds."
The Department of Homeland Security (through the U.S. Army Forces Command) recently retrofitted 2,717 of these MRAP vehicles for service on the streets of the U.S. They were formerly used for counterinsurgency in Iraq.
These vehicles are specifically designed to resist mines and ambush attacks. They use bulletproof windows and are designed to withstand small-arms fire, including smaller-caliber rifles such as a .223 Remington. Does DHS expect a counterinsurgency here?


Read More At Investor's Business Daily: http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/030513-646857-dhs-buys-special-armored-fighting-vehicles.htm#ixzz2OweaHZMj
Follow us: @IBDinvestors on Twitter | InvestorsBusinessDaily on Facebook
parados
 
  0  
Reply Sat 30 Mar, 2013 08:36 am
@hawkeye10,
Nothing like editorials and news reports written by college students to add to the "facts".

The funny thing is I don't recall anyone on the right up in arms when DHS was buying these vehicles for police forces all around the country back in 2002-2008.

Quote:
But despite recent reports, they have actually been in service since at least 2008.

"The MRAPs we have are not new," Ross Feinstein, a spokesman for DHS, told Business Insider. "We have been using them for years."

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/homeland-security-serving-warrants-mrap-2013-3#ixzz2P29Yeo00


And by the way. There are NOT 2,717 MRAPs being purchased to use on the streets of the US.
Quote:
The conclusion that the 2,717 Mine-Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles are for the Department of Homeland Security is false. Instead, they are part of a contract award to the US Navy and will be subsequently used by the United States Marine Corps.

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/41713_Fact_Checking-_Obama_DHS_Purchases_2700_Light-Armored_Tanks
0 Replies
 
 

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