is or are

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I found this sentence:"there is a growing popolation that are looking to pay more". I think it's wrong, since "are" should be "is", but my english teacher disagrees. I believe "a growing population" is singular. Therefore there's a mistake in The verb. Can anyone confirm my thoughts or am I wrong?

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Type: Question • Score: 6 • Views: 934 • Replies: 12

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@martijnspelling,

Well Mart, as an erstwhile writer I think "are" is right there but I'm no linguist

I just get the feeling that they pay more individually rather than as an organized group

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Is seems wrong to me because "population" is used singular as wel as plural , in this one sentence. That's not possible.

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Like many nouns of this kind, whether population is considered singular or plural tends to depend on whether the population is being considered collectively or as individuals. Since it started "there is a growing population" I feel the singular should be used thereafter for consistency.

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@martijnspelling,

Collective nouns can indeed be viewed as either singular or pkural. This seems to be because the "rules " of grammar do not merely refer to the surface structure of the syntax, but to the semantic "deep structure" which operates in real time by reference to cognitive state transitions. Thus the realization of the abstract unit... "the sentence" ...is subservient to the mental picture being communicated. There is bo such thing as "correctness" ...only "appropriateness", and "grammar" does not merel apply to sentences.

In this case "are" is most appropriate.

Note also in this respect that in other languages that singular forms e.g. il y a (there is OR there are) consistently operate to introduce both singular and plural nouns.

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@fresco,

Different English speakers apply different "rules" about collective nouns. Americans, for example, would say "the staff is," taking the collective noun as a singular. I believe i am correct in saying that the English would say "the staff are," taking the collective noun as a plural. I agree with Contrex that one should not mix the concepts in a single sentence.

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@Setanta,

I also agree with the not mixing a singular and plural treatment of "population" within a single statement. It makes me feel some cognitive dissonance. It feels clunky. It feels like doublethink.

I do feel as though this would be less dissonant:
"There is a growing population who are looking to pay more"

I think this alternative phrasing allows the dual treatment (singular/plural) by making the switch to singular more smoothly. The "who" signals the reader that we are dropping from the population level down to the individual level, before the reader reaches the modifier "are looking to pay more".

Still not the most elegant phrasing (in my opinion) but it remains short and I think clear.

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@contrex,

Yea Con, you have expressed my contention ever-so-much better than I

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I feel that 'population' is not a word that many native speakers would use in that place. I know that in statistics a population is "any finite or infinite aggregation of individuals, not necessarily animate, subject to a statistical study".

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@contrex,

Quote:

'population' is not a word that many native speakers would use in that place

Con you're absolutely right. I might have used "proportion" but only happened to think of it because it starts with a p, I'm sure you can suggest several if not many even better

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The phrase "looking to" is rather informal also.

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@MattDavis,

Quote:

I also agree with the not mixing a singular and plural treatment of "population" within a single statement. It makes me feel some cognitive dissonance. It feels clunky. It feels like doublethink.

I do feel as though this would be less dissonant:
"There is a growing population who are looking to pay more"

I think this alternative phrasing allows the dual treatment (singular/plural) by making the switch to singular more smoothly. The "who" signals the reader that we are dropping from the population level down to the individual level, before the reader reaches the modifier "are looking to pay more".

You don't want "clunky", "cognitive dissonance" or "doublethink", Matt, but then you give an alternative that is no different than the original. You agree with not mixing a singular and plural treatment within a single statement, but then you give an alternative that, again, is no different than the original.

You've made no switch to singular - what is singular about 'are' [except when it's used with singular 'you']? What does changing the relative pronoun from 'that' to 'who' have to do with anything?

A. Whoever wrote the original had no problem making that mental switch, [none of us do], for obviously the population refers to individuals that/who, [individually], have no problem paying more.

B. Whoever wrote the original had no problem making that mental switch, [none of us do], for obviously the population refers to a group of individuals that/who, [individually], has no problem paying more.

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@martijnspelling,

Quote:

I found this sentence:"there is a growing popolation that are looking to pay more". I think it's wrong, since "are" should be "is", but my english teacher disagrees. I believe "a growing population" is singular. Therefore there's a mistake in The verb. Can anyone confirm my thoughts or am I wrong?

Is your English teacher a native English speaker?

'population' is indeed grammatically singular, but that is only a grammatical convention that we follow, Martijn, in SFE/SWE.

It's not a commandment handed down from on high.

As someone has noted different dialects of English can treat the same words, eg. 'staff' or 'team', as either singular or plurals.

"wrong" is not an apt word to use when describing these issues.

'population' is, as I said grammatically singular, but it certainly has semantically plural connotations.

Which do you think most native speakers of English would choose if we had the following?

There is a growing population. [He or She is/They are/It is] looking to pay more.

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