Is religion responsible for the opposition to peace in the Israel-Palestine conflict?

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

http://www.salon.com/2016/04/18/u_s_acknowledges_israels_unlawful_killings_excessive_force_torture_discrimination_against_palestinians/

US acknowledges Israel's unlawful killings by excessive force, torture, discrimination against Palestinians.

The inference seems to be, if I extrapolate your point, that decisions of the U.S. government must be objectively correct. So, you then understand the need for American-Japanese internment, on the west coast, during WWII. You can't have your cake and eat it too, so to speak.

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@InfraBlue,

InfraBlue wrote:

Foofie wrote:

This thread started in 2013. It was no sooner resurrected in 2016 than the anti-Zionists, in my opinion, jumped on it with saliva virtually dripping from one's mouth. With all that is going on in the Middle East today, including a young child, for example, being a suicide bomber in Turkey (a wedding no less), not to mention the hostilities in Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Egypt, and other nearby countries, it is obvious that Jews need a safe haven from Jew Obsessed Goyim. And, one might wonder (read sarcastic) why so many Jews world-wide believe in what should be an archaic concept (a national state based on ethnicity). It's the mischegoyim (it's the mixed up gentiles).

You're not an island, entire of yourself, you know.

Are you calling me a solipsist? You are side-stepping my basic premise that the Jews in Israel have had their fill of murderous gentiles for the last two millenia. So, well meaning gentiles have assisted them in becoming a competent nation, able to protect themselves. Not so well meaning gentiles begrudge them the land they are sitting on, partially due to wars meant to annihilate them.

But, I really am an island unto myself, if you knew the low class white gentiles I live amongst. They want no part of me, and I want no part of them.

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@Glennn,

How clever of you to try and turn the question back on me.

You still haven't answered it.

Are you going to ask me, yet again what it was?

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@cicerone imposter,

You say you were happy to answer it but you didn't. Is it really that tough a question?

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Quote:

AUGUST 23, 2016

The Department of State warns U.S. citizens against all travel to the Gaza Strip and urges those present to depart as soon as possible when border crossings are open.

http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/alertswarnings/israel-travel-warning.html

Might be nothing. Might be nearing time for Israel to drop some bombs.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Quote:

You still haven't answered it.

This is your question:

. . . but do you think that the violence of the Palestinians (and surely you're not going to argue it doesn't exist) is any less prevalent or less unacceptable than what you cite as Zionist violence?

I thought I made it clear that Israel is building settlements on occupied territory. In your world, the Palestinians should just lay down and let the Israelis continue with their land theft, or they are guilty of unacceptable aggression.

But even that is not the point. In your world, the occupied have no right to resistance. They actually do. Your question was a transparent attempt to put both parties in the same light when it comes to who is to blame for the violence. Do you understand now?

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@Finn dAbuzz,

That's because you're an idiot who doesn't understand humans need for water.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/ramadan-2016-israel-water-west-bank-cuts-off-a7082826.html

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Oh, I almost forgot. Do you believe that Israel's breaking of a ceasefire with Hamas indicates the Israeli regime's lack of desire for peace? Or do you think it indicates something else?

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@Foofie,

Quote:

Are you calling me a solipsist? You are side-stepping my basic premise that the Jews in Israel have had their fill of murderous gentiles for the last two millenia. So, well meaning gentiles have assisted them in becoming a competent nation, able to protect themselves. Not so well meaning gentiles begrudge them the land they are sitting on, partially due to wars meant to annihilate them.

these "murderous gentiles" you speak of are not the Palestinians, who were small land-owning families.

these "well meaning gentiles" you speak of decided the Arabs should pay for European crimes. They had an agenda, which Israel factored into.

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@cicerone imposter,

I tend to think that even my most harsh of critics won't dispute that I understand the need for water.

You didn't answer the question. Are you going to go on and on like the oh so clever Glenn and keep asking what is the question?

Answer it or don't. I don't care, but you make yourself look foolish by saying you are happy to answer it and then not doing so.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

That is the issue; water. You wouldn't understand it in a million years.
Try living without water for one month or more. Try it; I dare you.

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@Glennn,

Good Lord can you not answer a simple question without trying to come across as some uber-clever debater?

It's a simple question that you can answer with "Yes" or "No" but you insist on dodging it.

At this point I can only surmise that you're simply being petulant and that if you answer it honestly you believe I have somehow won a contest that only you have been obsessed with.

Hey, don't bother.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

You're the dense one here.

Quote:

@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
Quote:
but do you think that the violence of the Palestinians (and surely you're not going to argue it doesn't exist) is any less prevalent or less unacceptable than what you cite as Zionist violence?

c.i.: I'll be more than happy to answer your question. The Israelis cut off water from the West Bank. Do you know how long humans can live without water?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/ramadan-2016-israel-water-west-bank-cuts-off-a7082826.html

How long do you think you can survive without water?

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@Glennn,

Quote:

"Oh, I almost forgot"

How precious. Rolling Eyes

I don't know that they did, and considering the other "proof" you've offered for your positions, I'm not going to accept what you claim.

However...

The Israelis aren't sweet doves who will do anything for "peace."

Your definition of peace is that they comply with all of the demands of the Palestinians.

That is absurd, but as long as you hold on to it, you get to insist they don't want peace.

PLO leaders have had more than one opportunity to resolve this conflict and they always refuse to because they are scared shitless of the extremists in their ranks and of losing power.

Now let me ask you another question you will refuse to answer.

Have you been to Israel and the Territories?

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

Quote:

It's a simple question that you can answer with "Yes" or "No" but you insist on dodging it.

You wanted to know if I think the Palestinian's resistance to occupation is as unacceptable as Israel's violence and land theft. The answer is no. It's not unacceptable at all. I thought I made that clear when I said that the Palestinians have a legal right to resist the occupation.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Quote:

I don't know that they did

Well, of course you didn't. Acknowledging such a thing goes against your programming.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SILJxPTqjAM

Quote:

Your definition of peace is that they comply with all of the demands of the Palestinians.

Whoa there! Now you're just making shyt up. You need to slow down. I didn't say that. My definition of peace is when the Israeli regime stops its land theft and abides by International Law. So they need to comply with International Law concerning not building settlements in occupied territory. You do understand what that means, don't you?

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@Glennn,

I really believe Finn is brain damaged. He goes 90 degrees off to left field on any issue when the facts are available for anyone to find on the internet.
1. Israel's illegal settlements on Palestinian lands
a. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_law_and_Israeli_settlements
2. Cut off of water to the West Bank
a. http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2016/06/17/470870/Israel-cuts-water-West-Bank-during-Ramadan
3. Killing of children in the West Bank
Notice that this information comes from the Telegraph.co.uk
a. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/11774900/Palestinian-baby-dies-in-fire-started-by-Israeli-settlers.html
4. Discrimination against Palestinians in Israel
a. https://www.amnesty.org.uk/discrimination-against-palestinians-israel

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Quote:

At this point I can only surmise that you're simply being petulant and that if you answer it honestly you believe I have somehow won a contest that only you have been obsessed with.

I do not believe that telling you that Palestinians have the right to resistance to occupation and that the Israeli regime is breaking International Law by building settlements in occupied territory will mean that I believe you have won a contest.

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@Glennn,

No, I wanted to know

Quote:

Do you think that the violence of the Palestinians is any less prevalent or less unacceptable than what you cite as Zionist violence?

You just can't help yourself can you?

BTW you can't even manage a coherent answer.

Your answer is clearly "Yes, the violence of Palestinians is less prevalent and less unacceptable that what I've cited as Zionist violence."

Was that really so tough to state?

So despite all your nonsense we come down to the fact that, for some reason, you feel that the Zionists who resorted to violence against the British before the State of Israel came to be, are not only fundamentally different than the Palestinians who resort to violence against the Israelis, they didn't have the moral standing the Palestinians do.

Why?

Folks like you are very happy with the bromide "One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter," until it bumps up against their politics, or in your case, your high handed notions.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Quote:

BTW you can't even manage a coherent answer.

You wanted to know if I think the Palestinian's resistance to occupation is as unacceptable as Israel's violence and land theft. The answer is no. It's not unacceptable at all. I thought I made that clear when I said that the Palestinians have a legal right to resist the occupation.
__________________________________
I think you should reread that . . .

Quote:

So despite all your nonsense we come down to the fact that, for some reason, you feel that the Zionists who resorted to violence against the British before the State of Israel came to be, are not only fundamentally different than the Palestinians who resort to violence against the Israelis, they didn't have the moral standing the Palestinians do.

Are you saying that the British Mandate for Palestine was illegal?

1 Reply

Is religion responsible for the opposition to peace in the Israel-Palestine conflict?

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