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Is religion responsible for the opposition to peace in the Israel-Palestine conflict?

 
 
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Reply Wed 12 May, 2021 11:46 am
@oralloy,
giving back the land they stole and stopping stealing more of it for illegal settlemtns would be a good way ro do it. Duh.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 12 May, 2021 12:00 pm
@MontereyJack,
Wrong. The Palestinians have been offered that land in exchange for peace, and the Palestinians still refuse to make peace.
Leadfoot
 
  0  
Reply Thu 13 May, 2021 08:45 am
@oralloy,
There you go again, talking logic and facts to the woke.
0 Replies
 
goldberg
 
  0  
Reply Fri 14 May, 2021 05:17 am
@oralloy,
The Palestinians just lap up the suggestion that Jerusalem belongs to them. They simply blench at the Israel's suggestion of offering land for peace and keep attacking Israel instead, notwithstanding their leaders' meretricious-repeated- claims that they want peace.

Arafat, Fateh's former leader, was one of the richest men in the Middle East. His net worth:$6 billion.
0 Replies
 
goldberg
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 14 May, 2021 05:18 am
Only Muslim terrorists would support Palestine
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 May, 2021 07:44 am
@goldberg,
goldberg wrote:

Only Muslim terrorists would support Palestine


I support Palestine. I am neither Muslim nor a terrorist.
goldberg
 
  0  
Reply Fri 14 May, 2021 08:21 am
@maxdancona,
I don't want to dissemble my eagerness to help Israel face down Hamas, max. Yet I'm not going to carpet you for having a different view. You are entitled to your own opinion.
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 May, 2021 08:44 am
@maxdancona,
If anyone has a historical 'right ' to 'Palestine' it is the Jews.

But then we’d have to give back N. America to the 'Indians'.

**** it, Evolution goes where it needs to go. The 'Palestinians' want to wipe Israel off the map, let’em fight. They will fight amongst themselves if they don’t have the Jews to hate. Kind of like the U.S., if we don’t have somebody to have a war with we go back to red vs blue, white vs black, us vs Covid, etc.

Maybe 1984's 'two minutes of hate' everyday would work.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 May, 2021 09:20 am
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:

If anyone has a historical 'right ' to 'Palestine' it is the Jews.


Make this argument without using a religious text.

(Palestinians and Israelis have the same ancestors as shown by both historical sources and genetics if you ignore the European ancestors that many Israelis have.)
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Fri 14 May, 2021 09:25 am
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:

The 'Palestinians' want to wipe Israel off the map, let’em fight.


That is a disgusting lie.

Israel is occupying Palestine, and forcibly evicting them from homes they have lived in for generations.

They want to rule themselves, and not have their children butchered by the IDF.

Just like the Vietnamese wanted to live in peace and not have their children murdered by Americans
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 May, 2021 09:35 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
(Palestinians and Israelis have the same ancestors as shown by both historical sources and genetics if you ignore the European ancestors that many Israelis have.)
Irrelevant. We all have the same ancestors if you go back far enough.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 May, 2021 09:43 am
@Leadfoot,
You made the claim that Israelis have more "right" to Palestine than the Palestinians.

I asked you to defend that dubious claim without using a religious text.

Can you do that?
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 May, 2021 10:27 am
@maxdancona,
I don’t need the Bible to prove tribalism.

The Jews were a tribe (several actually) that historically occupied that land. They were singled out to be scattered and persecuted. This is just history. It just happens to match the Bible.

And if you were actually reading my post, it should be obvious that I do not think history is the only determining factor in who has a right to a land.

Frankly, I think it is a miracle that Israel exists today. I don’t think the matter is in anyone’s hands on earth. You'd probably like the way it goes in the Bible. Your guys win the next round.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 May, 2021 10:30 am
@Leadfoot,
So what about that argument doesn't also apply to the Palestinians.

The people who were "driven out" and the people who stayed and became the Palestinians were the same (i.e. they had the same ancestral claim to the land).

What gives the Israeli's more right to the land than the Palestinians? Jews and Palestinians are both descended from the people living in that place during the Stone Age.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 May, 2021 10:31 am
@maxdancona,
That is above my pay grade.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 May, 2021 10:34 am
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:

That is above my pay grade.


And yet you support the violent conflict (or at least one side of it).
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Fri 14 May, 2021 10:35 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
Leadfoot wrote:
If anyone has a historical 'right' to 'Palestine' it is the Jews.

Make this argument without using a religious text.

Since Israeli Jews are part of the indigenous population, they have the right to live there.

Done.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Fri 14 May, 2021 10:36 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
Leadfoot wrote:
The 'Palestinians' want to wipe Israel off the map, let'em fight.

That is a disgusting lie.

Not really. His statement is true.


izzythepush wrote:
Israel is occupying Palestine, and forcibly evicting them from homes they have lived in for generations.

Israel might as well, since the Palestinians refuse to ever make peace with Israel.


izzythepush wrote:
They want to rule themselves, and not have their children butchered by the IDF.

If that is what the Palestinians wanted, then they should have accepted peace one of the many times when it was offered to them at the negotiating table.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Fri 14 May, 2021 10:37 am
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:
Irrelevant. We all have the same ancestors if you go back far enough.

Actually Max has a point.

DNA shows that the Palestinians and the Israelis were both Canaanites during the Bronze Age.

After the Bronze Age collapsed, the former Canaanites formed a number of smaller Iron Age kingdoms. The Israelite kingdoms in the West Bank were two of these smaller kingdoms.

DNA shows that the Palestinians diverged from the Israelis after the Bronze Age, so the Palestinians were probably from one of the other Iron Age kingdoms formed by former Bronze Age Canaanites.

Perhaps the Palestinians were Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, or Phoenicians (all groups that used to be Bronze Age Canaanites, but diverged into separate Iron Age civilizations).
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 May, 2021 10:38 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
You made the claim that Israelis have more "right" to Palestine than the Palestinians.

I didn't read his post that way.

I read his post as saying that the Israelis definitely have the right to be there, without commenting either way on whether or not the Palestinians also have the right to be there.
0 Replies
 
 

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