14
   

Obama's State of the Union

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 15 Feb, 2013 11:22 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

hawk, What makes you believe the US has the responsibility to spend more than seven times all the other countries spend on defense, while we underfund our schools, infrastructure, and our citizens must sacrifice a larger tax burden?
i am saying that this is what we have decided to do. I will also say that a huge percentage of the global powers have long claimed that this is our obligation, that not doing it would be a failure to execute our super power duties. my major point however is that on this issue Beth is either a liar or an idiot.
0 Replies
 
aspvenom
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Feb, 2013 07:04 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
The F-35 has little cameras all over the plane that feed into the central computer, which then projects an image of the outside world to the pilot's helmet depending on which direction he (or she) is looking.
From the perspective of the pilot's eyes, it will appear that the pilot is just flying through the air in a chair, without any plane at all.


Irrelevant. Without F22 to provide support and maintain air superiority for the F35, then a well maintained air force of another nation with F35's are on par with our F35 to knock it down.
It won't matter if the F-35 can see the F-22 coming. F-22 tactically employs at nearly twice the altitude and at 50% greater airspeed than the F-35

oralloy wrote:
If the F-35 succeeds in making maneuverability obsolete, then no amount of thrust vectoring will do the F-22 any good.


F-35 has nothing on F-22. Regarding maneuverability, F-22 can reach higher mach and higher altitude than an F-35 and use such altitudes to declare dominance. Due to such range, F-22 can cover twice as much battle territory than F-35. F-22 also has more APG-81 derived T/R elements than F-35. Added to that F-22 can turn twice as fast than F-35. Not to mention F-22 carries twice as much air to air missiles than F-35.
F-22 against F-35 is the same as pitting a dog against a Lion. No question about it regarding air to air combat.

The politicians did not provide support for the F-22 program because, the U.S. has always been into having large numbers of relatively cheap "multi-role" fighters that can do both air-to-air combat and air-ground strikes, rather than have a smaller number of much more expensive dedicated "air superiority" fighters whose major function is taking down enemy jets with ease.

orlloy wrote:
It is unlikely in the extreme that our closest allies will become our enemies within the lifetime of these fighters.

And having strong friends and allies makes us stronger as well.

Maybe unlikely, but is it impossible? Putting such level of trust is a danger to our nation. If you can't see that, then you are clearly misguided. it's better to be safe than sorry.

oralloy wrote:
That China poses an imminent grave threat to a number of our close allies is not a fantasy, and certainly not an illogical one.

If we want to avoid a war, then we must be strong enough to fight that war. Otherwise the war will come to us whether we like it or not.

The rise of Chinese over time doesn't mean a war. They maybe an economic threat, but numbers wise, it doesn't add up to conclude that their military posses any threat to us. They don't even have a legitimate navy. And our allies are also increasing their military funding in recent times. China wouldn't dare start anything for fear of being decimated before they could even put one foot forward.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 16 Feb, 2013 08:47 am
@aspvenom,
aspvenom wrote:
oralloy wrote:
The F-35 has little cameras all over the plane that feed into the central computer, which then projects an image of the outside world to the pilot's helmet depending on which direction he (or she) is looking.
From the perspective of the pilot's eyes, it will appear that the pilot is just flying through the air in a chair, without any plane at all.


Irrelevant.


It is highly relevant to the point I was addressing, which was an allegation that the F-22 has superior observability.

It is also relevant to the F-35's ability to fight, since an F-35 can shoot down anything it can see, so long as it is within missile range.



aspvenom wrote:
Without F22 to provide support and maintain air superiority for the F35, then a well maintained air force of another nation with F35's are on par with our F35 to knock it down.


If the F-35 is as effective as hoped for, then having F-22s on our side would do little good against the opposing F-35s.

But the notion that we will ever have to do war against a nation armed with F-35s is a little silly. What we really have to worry about fighting are J-31s from China.



aspvenom wrote:
It won't matter if the F-35 can see the F-22 coming. F-22 tactically employs at nearly twice the altitude and at 50% greater airspeed than the F-35


If an F-35 can see the other plane, the F-35 can instantly fire a missile at the other plane.



aspvenom wrote:
oralloy wrote:
If the F-35 succeeds in making maneuverability obsolete, then no amount of thrust vectoring will do the F-22 any good.


F-35 has nothing on F-22.


The F-35 has the ability to see a plane in any direction, and the ability to instantly lock on and fire a missile in any direction.



aspvenom wrote:
Regarding maneuverability, F-22 can reach higher mach and higher altitude than an F-35 and use such altitudes to declare dominance.


And the F-35 can just fire a missile at them without even changing course.



aspvenom wrote:
Added to that F-22 can turn twice as fast than F-35.


The F-22 needs to turn before it can fire its missiles.

The F-35 can fire its missiles without needing to turn.



aspvenom wrote:
The politicians did not provide support for the F-22 program because, the U.S. has always been into having large numbers of relatively cheap "multi-role" fighters that can do both air-to-air combat and air-ground strikes, rather than have a smaller number of much more expensive dedicated "air superiority" fighters whose major function is taking down enemy jets with ease.


Depends on the politicians.

Some of them felt that the F-35 was a huge leap forward in fighter technology. If the tech pans out, they will be correct, though we won't know for awhile if it does pan out.

Others opposed the F-22 because they hate America and they want to disarm the US military.



aspvenom wrote:
oralloy wrote:
It is unlikely in the extreme that our closest allies will become our enemies within the lifetime of these fighters.

And having strong friends and allies makes us stronger as well.


Maybe unlikely, but is it impossible?


Pretty near impossible, especially within the life cycle of these fighter jets.



aspvenom wrote:
Putting such level of trust is a danger to our nation. If you can't see that, then you are clearly misguided. it's better to be safe than sorry.


Having weak allies is an even greater danger to us.



aspvenom wrote:
oralloy wrote:
That China poses an imminent grave threat to a number of our close allies is not a fantasy, and certainly not an illogical one.

If we want to avoid a war, then we must be strong enough to fight that war. Otherwise the war will come to us whether we like it or not.


The rise of Chinese over time doesn't mean a war.


But the fact that China is actively trying to conquer our allies' territory does mean war.



aspvenom wrote:
They maybe an economic threat, but numbers wise, it doesn't add up to conclude that their military posses any threat to us.


If their military is no threat, then what are they doing entering our allies' territory, laying claim to it, and even getting radar locks on our allies' ships and warplanes while they are invading our allies' territory?



aspvenom wrote:
They don't even have a legitimate navy.


Well, whatever its standards, we need to be ready to sink it.



aspvenom wrote:
And our allies are also increasing their military funding in recent times. China wouldn't dare start anything for fear of being decimated before they could even put one foot forward.


China is already starting something.
aspvenom
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Feb, 2013 08:54 am
@oralloy,
See and say what you want to. F-22 is undeniably unbeatable by the F-35 models in air to air battles. F-35 is just a sitting duck that can shoot from all sides. Quick evasive maneuvers and speed is all that is required to blow it out of the sky by the F-22 model.

I hope there aren't many individuals with your ideology sitting in Washington, otherwise WW3 initiated by us is just be around the corner.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 16 Feb, 2013 09:04 am
@aspvenom,
aspvenom wrote:
See and say what you want to. F-22 is undeniably is unbeatable by the F-35 models in air to air battles. F-35 is just a sitting duck that can shoot from all sides.


The F-35 has fairly decent stealth. Hard to fire on it if you don't know it is there.

And also hard to fire on it if it has fired on you first and shot you down.



aspvenom wrote:
I hope there aren't many individuals with your ideology sitting in Washington, otherwise WW3 initiated by us is just around the corner.


Hardly initiated by us. It is China that is trying to initiate the war.

And my ideology is to make sure they decide not to initiate the war, by making sure we are strong enough to win it if they do.

The ideology that makes the war most likely is the one that says we should disarm so that we do not have the strength to oppose China.

But either way, any war that starts with China invading our allies' territory will not be a war that "we" initiated.
aspvenom
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Feb, 2013 09:23 am
@oralloy,
F-22 also optimizes stealth technology as well. F-22 also has about double the An/APG-81 derived T/R elements in its radar than F-35 to track incoming missiles multiple targets in any weather. Spotting and outmaneuvering offensive strikes by the F-35 won't be too hard even if F-35 gets to pull the trigger first. F-22's high maneuverability at supersonic and subsonic speeds, altitude, agility, sensor fusion and stealth is untouchable by F-35.

You've been talking about China invading our allies. In the recent years, tell me which allied nation that China has invaded.
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 16 Feb, 2013 09:24 am


China is a concern, but didn't Russian bombers orbit Guam while Obama read from his teleprompter?

Maybe they were just checking to see if Hank Johnson's fear was valid.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 16 Feb, 2013 09:43 am
@aspvenom,
aspvenom wrote:
You've been talking about China invading our allies. In the recent years, tell me which allied nation that China has invaded.


Japan and the Philippines. Mostly Japan.

And you should say in recent weeks, or even recent days.
0 Replies
 
 

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