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Amish get 3,7 and 15 years prision for BEARD CUTTING

 
 
Reply Fri 8 Feb, 2013 05:30 pm
WTF? I know how important beards are to the Amish but there is no way this should get punished as harshly as manslaughter. This will surely teach the community to keep their mouths shut to the state.
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Fri 8 Feb, 2013 06:04 pm
@hawkeye10,
It was actually considered a hate crime by those not of the sect. (They were a fringe element that was preying on the House Amish)

Amish deserve the same protection under the law as anyone else.

Im sure the sentences will be reduced at some time as the decision is remanded
Pearlylustre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Feb, 2013 06:25 pm
@farmerman,
It sounds more like an internal power struggle than a hate crime. Despite their differences, both the offenders and their victims are beard-growing Amish. I could understand it being a hate crime if a non-Amish group was going around cutting off Amish beards out of religious hatred. If exactly the same thing happened in a bikie gang it wouldn't be considered a hate crime.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Fri 8 Feb, 2013 07:30 pm
@Pearlylustre,
As I unerstood from the news was that the one group (the cutters) were ex Amish of the BEachey cult
Pearlylustre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Feb, 2013 10:30 pm
@farmerman,
Oh ok. The news article I read said ' the attacks were retaliation against Amish who had defied or denounced Mullet's authoritarian hold over the splinter group he started in 1995'. I took this to mean that they all still identified as Amish - just different factions and that at least some of the victims were in the same 'splinter group' . It sounded like some sort of power struggle. I won't lose any sleep over the details though - 15 years still seems quite extreme. Do we know how and where they actually did it?
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Feb, 2013 11:46 pm
@Pearlylustre,
Pearlylustre wrote:

It sounds more like an internal power struggle than a hate crime. Despite their differences, both the offenders and their victims are beard-growing Amish. I could understand it being a hate crime if a non-Amish group was going around cutting off Amish beards out of religious hatred. If exactly the same thing happened in a bikie gang it wouldn't be considered a hate crime.

yep, this seems like a new stretching of hate crime law aka a new power grab by the state. the critics of hate crime law have long held that the laws will eventually be expanded to collect anybody and everybody that the state wants to dispose of, unless we the citizens make a stand.
farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2013 05:48 am
@hawkeye10,
here we go. Anytime we have a cross burning we should only deal out "community service " and a small fine.

Why not try to get some of the case information rather than just a couple of news clips . This entire issue had been followed by the AnaBaptist Center and the Anabaptist Human Rights Inst.

The berd cutters were NOT Amish, they were merely feignng Amishness. It was sorta like "Amish Mafia" there is no such thing and , maybe if you saw that the AMish man's beard is as much a religious symbol as anything you could imagine .

Anyway, the perpetrators leader, i believe, was also guilty of several other crimes besideds just civil rights violations. I think he stole a mule and a plow and some other stuff.

Libertarians love chaos, I prefer a society with freedom AND order,
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2013 05:59 am
@farmerman,
HERES A CLIP. It doesnt have the information about how the "ringleader" also took some of the victims prperty. Also, the prosecutors viewed the grabbing of the victims as KIDNAPPING.
Mullet, the ringleader ran a cult of self styled AMish, He wasnt really part of the order
Quote:
Ohio Amish Beard-Cutting Ringleader Gets 15 Years


























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By THOMAS J. SHEERAN Associated Press

CLEVELAND February 8, 2013 (AP)







Denying he ran an Amish cult, the 67-year-old ringleader of hair- and beard-cutting attacks on fellow members of his faith in Ohio was sentenced Friday to 15 years in prison, while family members convicted of carrying out his orders got sentences ranging from one to seven years.

The judge said the defendants had violated the constitutional rights protecting religious practice that had also benefited them as Amish. Authorities had prosecuted the attacks as a hate crime.

Before his sentencing, Samuel Mullet Sr. told the judge he had been accused of running a cult. Mullet, his ankles in chains and a white beard down to mid-chest, said that if his community is seen as a cult, "Then I'm going to take the punishment for everybody."

The 10 men and six women were convicted last year in five attacks in Ohio Amish communities in 2011. The government said the attacks were retaliation against Amish who had defied or denounced Mullet's authoritarian hold over the splinter group he started in 1995.

The case has opened a rare window to the lives of the insular Amish, who shun many facets of modern life and are deeply religious. Amish believe the Bible instructs women to let their hair grow long and men to grow beards once they marry. Cutting it would be shameful and offensive.

"The victims were terrorized and traumatized," U.S. District Judge Dan Aaron Polster said, noting that the same constitution that exempts them from jury service and permission to leave school at 14 was turned against the victims. "Each of you has received the benefits of that First Amendment."

With relatives of victims and his family sitting on opposite sides of the public gallery, Mullet said he has lived his life trying to help others.






AP


Amish men walk to the U.S. Federal Courthouse... View Full Caption



"That's been my goal all my life," Mullet said to a hushed courtroom, with his fellow defendants and their attorneys sitting at four defense tables and filling the jury box.

"I'm not going to be here much longer," said Mullet, who didn't elaborate on any health issues.

The government had asked for a life sentence for Mullet, while the defense asked for two years or less.

Some defendants tearfully offered to take the brunt of the blame and punishment on behalf of Mullet or their spouses. Addressing the judge one by one, they said there would be no more beard-cutting attacks.

Freeman Burkholder, the 32-year-old husband of a Mullet niece and father of eight children, apologized to the judge.

"I won't do it again," he said.

Anna Miller, 33, married to a Mullet nephew and mother of six, also apologized, turning to relatives of victims as she said, "I'm sorry, it won't happen again." Like most of the women, she was sentenced to one year.

Federal prosecutor Bridget Brennan urged the judge to punish Mullet adequately.

"He is a danger to this community," she said. "He is capable of controlling 15 defendants."

Brennan repeated key testimony against Mullet and said he has remained the leader of his eastern Ohio community despite being locked up since his arrest in late 2011.

U.S. Attorney Steven Dettelbach, whose office directed the prosecution, said he was confident the law would withstand a constitutional challenge.

As for Mullet, "I think the sentence he got was harsh; I think it was appropriately harsh," Dettelbach said. "Mr. Mullet's conduct in court today reiterated yet again his utter failure to respect the rule of law and his utter lack of remorse."

The jury had sided with prosecutors' arguments that the defendants should be found guilty of a hate crime because religious differences brought about the attacks.

The judge said the defendants have two weeks to file appeals of their sentences or convictions. Defense attorneys have indicated such appeals are likely.

Rhonda Kotnik, attorney for Kathryn Miller, a 24-year-old mother of three who received a one-year sentence, said appeals would focus on whether the hate-crimes law is unconstitutionally broad and whether restraining the victims to cut their beards amounted to kidnapping.

"There are lots of issues," she said.

Nine of 10 men who were convicted have been locked up awaiting sentencing. The six women, who all have children, have been free on bond



See wahts done in appeals. Remember that,
" a conviction in court is the first step to a successful appeal"
0 Replies
 
33export
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2013 07:54 am
http://db66abc2c256b763aaef-ce5d943d4869ae027976e5ad085dd9b0.r76.cf2.rackcdn.com/2013/39/260/sam-mullet_420.jpg
(pic links to article)
farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2013 08:21 am
@33export,
The Amish have Bishops that provide leadership an, with the Elders of a parish, wil decide on moral transgressions and community activities (some bishoprics allow tractors with rubber wheels, others dont. BUT ALL do not allow tractors to be used for "plowing an cultivating fields"
The Amish act as a community. They do not believe in one person laording his or her will over the others. The way that Mullet hd apparently established his cult (mostly members of his immediate family)it was more like a "Jim Jones" breakaway group where Mullet had set himself up as a Supreme Priest.
Dr Richard Kraybill, a senior fellow at the ANabaptist and Pietist Institute, testified for the prosecution because the issue became one of whether Mullets group was even AMISH. Kraybill's opinions, which remained as the compelling testimony in the record, stated that this was a kind of dangerous Cult that ws set on intimidation and religious "Extortion" of the real Amish Community. The Amish of Steubenville were scared shitless of this guy.
As you can see from the stories , the prosecution was successful at convincing the pnel of judges that they were, indeed, NOT AMISH.

Will Mullet's sentence be appealed successfully?
I hope not because , my AMish neighbors were traumatized by this blatant disregard of one of the symbols of their way of life being marginalized by a "soft sentence".
NOW, it is a very AMISH thing that, once the sentence is delivered and the prisoners begin their "time served", some AMISH Bishops, in a spirit of forgiveness (Which permeates their evryday life), will, no doubt, testify ON BEHALF of the defendents so that they can be given a lighter sentence.

The same way , that when the deranged guy killed those 11 kids in the Nickel Mines Amish School, one of the first things the AMish Community did was to circle the wagons of support AROUND the murderers wife and kids. They nursed the wife and the kids and , in a spirit of their gentke forgiveness, they helped heal wound and help remove the stigma of being a wife of a mass murderer.

I dont know whether I could have done that.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2013 11:51 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
As you can see from the stories , the prosecution was successful at convincing the pnel of judges that they were, indeed, NOT AMISH.

do you have a legal opinion to that end? all I can find is opinion that says otherwise

Quote:
The convictions of Mr. Mullet, along with several relatives and others from his settlement who carried out the assaults, could bring lengthy prison terms. The verdicts were a vindication for federal prosecutors, who made a risky decision to apply a 2009 federal hate-crimes law to the sect’s violent efforts to humiliate Amish rivals.

Defense lawyers in the case and an independent legal expert had argued that the government was overreaching by turning a personal vendetta within the Amish community, and related attacks, into a federal hate-crimes case. But the jury accepted the prosecutors’ description of the attacks as an effort to suppress the victims’ practice of religion, finding Mr. Mullet and the other defendants guilty on nearly all the charges they faced of conspiracy, hate crimes and obstruction of justice.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/21/us/jury-convicts-amish-group-of-hate-crimes.html?_r=0

and who were in this jury? if the state had any interest in operating above board they would have been all Amish, but i bet they were not.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2013 12:40 pm
@hawkeye10,
see if you cant find the testimony of one Dr Donald Kraybill in the Steubenville Ohio, "Beard cutting trial"
He testified for the proscution that the muller clan was a brekaway (MEANING NOT) "amish' (wannabee) group. (wannabee was my word).
kraybill, an expert on Anabaptists stated that, in his opinion, Muller was not Amish and his group was not Amish.

Hes kinda like the Westover Baptists. Are they Baptists?

------------Even if these guys WERE defined as AMISH , what less of a hate crime would this be in your opinion?

If someone soils a revered tradition and symbol of nes religion willfully and to be used as an extortive act, is that an act of brotherhood and respect?

Are you just saying fie to the 2009 hate crime law or are you making a deeper point??
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2013 12:42 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:

do you have a legal opinion to that end? all I can find is opinion that says otherwise
No more than you. All I have is newspaper reports also.
Everybody knows you cant say something in a newspaper unless its true.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2013 01:03 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
it was more like a "Jim Jones" breakaway group where Mullet had set himself up as a Supreme Priest.

i saw a quote from a victim's wife that has it that Mullet has brainwashed the clan, that all the rest are innocent.......

I'll bet that what has the Amish peeved is that Mullet has been using the women of his clan as his personal harem, and that turning him in for beard cutting was mostly a means to an end (stopping his immoral acts) , that the beard cutting was no big deal to anyone.......which again would discredit the states argument of hate crime.

still, I have yet to see any Amish claim that Mullet is not Amish. This result in this case is very troubling for those of us who have been tracking the abusive acts of this state.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2013 01:17 pm
@hawkeye10,
I mean, the defence lawyer had asked for a sentence of 6 to 8 years, under federal sentencing guidelines he could have received a life sentence ...
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2013 01:19 pm
@hawkeye10,
I take it you know nothing about Amish life. When you state that the Amish were Peeved at his getting laid by the women in his group, you seem to display your ignorance of the sect.

Im not an expert by any means but I live among em and was asking several of my Amish neighbors about this case and they are (with the exception of two) reluctant to talk of travails that slop on to their community.

Mullets group moved to the Steubenville area from a point or points unknown in 1994 He stablished strict rules with he as a Supreme Leder

All land purchases were made in mullets name , not the members of the community. ALL land would pass only to his heirs. (JIM JONES?? Id say yes).


He was admonished for his severe and non community practices by a huge convocation of AMISH Bishops in 2006. He was "eparated" from the religion by the community and the term "cult" was tarted. The case ws filed in 2010 fter the beard cutting incidents
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2013 01:33 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
Mullets group moved to the Steubenville area from a point or points unknown in 1994 He stablished strict rules with he as a Supreme Leder

All land purchases were made in mullets name , not the members of the community. ALL land would pass only to his heirs.

by all accounts because he was convinced that the community had gone soft and since they refused reform he would take his family and go alone in going back to the old ways themselves. do you have any information that indicates that what the other Amish object to in the sects behavior is not in fact the old ways as he was claiming his goal was?

btw, calling what is almost all his family a cult reeks of abuse of language to me.
farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2013 04:30 pm
@hawkeye10,
RIDDLE OF THE AMISH CULTURE andTHE AMISH WAY;PATIENT FAITH IN A PERILOUS WORLD are both written by Donald Kraybill. He and , perhaps, Dr Jon Hostetter are the two majors involved with the AMISH and their culture.
Briefly, the Ordnung and the Amish Disciplines (which are written down "Instructions" of behavior is handed down by the Council of Amish Bishops, who act as a community body of rulemakers for the 8 "Plain Sects" or "Old Order Amish"

There are really no "Old Ways, If Mullet is saying that, hes trying to reinforce the worship of HIM as the final word among his group. THAT sorta defines a cult wherein the worship of a symbol or an individual becomes the focus of the religion. In this case Mullet has defined hiself as the SUpreme Leader . All his own pronouncements, like being incharge of sexual mores, the ownership of property, the practices of discipline and punishment, defining "New Rules" etc


ALL members of ALL AMISH orders require unshaved beards for married men whove been Baptized and that women do not cut their hair.
The act of humiliation that Mullet did to these men and women, as well as threats of violence, unwarranted excommunication (without any authority,) an even the fact that Mullet wasnt properly ordained as anything, yet he set himself up as the focus of the order.
In 2006 the convocation of AMish Bishops tried to discipline he and his group. He renounced the "Real" AMish as not practicing Jacob Amons vision. That is total poppycock because all the ordnung items an decrees of Disciplines have been COMMUNITY PRODUCTS.

The AMISH are like ants, they have a very commited communal mind and standing "OUT" is a grave sin of pride. Pride is as grave a sin to them as is any sexual dalliance or polygamy . Violence and causibg harm to any other human is a sin against the Ordnung's admonition to "Turn the Cheek"

Amish have been caught in fights during their "Wild time" (before marriage an baptism), they are returned to the law and are dually required to dos ervice to the offended party as a form of penance.

NOPE, Mullet runs a cult and , with Kraybills testimony about whether this breakaway group was even AMISH, was taken into deep consideration by the jury and the judge panel


0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Feb, 2013 01:19 pm
I have zero problem with prison sentences for such behaviors however the length of those sentences seems just another example of how insane our so call justice system happen to be.

Every time I see such long sentences I mult by 40,000 dollars a year and think of all the betters uses that amount of public money could be employed at.

The point that such behaviors will not be allow could be make a lot cheaper and we could open a better future to the poor by funding more public higher education for example.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Feb, 2013 03:03 pm
@BillRM,
The sentence followed the guidelines. They originally wanted life
 

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