Where is the self? How can dualism stand if it's just a fiction?

@fresco,

You are another one who infers that he KNOWS the true nature of REALITY.

If it makes you feel comfortable to feel that way...go for it. I'm on your side.

TO THE CHRISTIANS HERE: If it makes you feel comfortable to suppose a GOD who so loved the world that HE gave up HIS only begotten son for you...

...go for it. I'm on your side.

TO THE PEOPLE WHO SAY THERE ARE NO GODS: If it makes you fee comfortable to suppose there are no gods...go for it. I'm on your side.

Me...well, I have no idea of the true nature of the REALITY...and questions like whether there are gods or not are beyond me.

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bemp

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

Me...well, I have no idea of the true nature of the REALITY

Of course not....by definition !

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@fresco,

Do you???

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@Frank Apisa,

A rhetorical question, but I'll answer it anyway.

That part of what may be called "my experience" which has transcended traditional dichotomies of what "is" and what "is not", by seeing the inextricable and transient nature of such polar conceptualization, is evidence in support of statements such as those cited above.

For non-mystical conclusions of the same nature as this, you might read Derrida's views on aporia, or Quine's views on language. But neither of these alternatives will be acceptable to that "Frank" who stubbornly clings to the side of his little pool shouting at the swimmers "oh yeh..what do they know" as they elegantly glide past.

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@fresco,

I wonder where Frank fits into his experiences between birth and death?

I guess it's "I don't know."

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@cicerone imposter,

I would love to hear him say I don't know if I don't know...but hell the man seams pretty sure on that one... Mr. Green

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

Me...well, I have no idea of the true nature of the REALITY...

Frank, you say you have no idea of the true nature of reality and fresco quoted that reality is beyond conceptualization. Can you explain the difference between saying you have no idea and fresco quoting that reality is beyond concepts? I'd like to hear you say how 'your' view differs.

Your explanation will show (to some extent) how close/far you are away from being a Buddhist in terms of its Madyamika philosophy which is at the heart of Buddhism for many Buddhists.

fresco wrote:

Reality itself (which is beyond conceptualization) is not a state of nothingness but the source of all life and the essence of all forms”.

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@fresco,

We all have an idea of the nature of reality from our perspectives. Do you claim that our experience of reality gives us the true nature of reality? I like to think there are far more questions than answers.

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@Looking4Truth,

You wrote,

Quote:

Do you claim that our experience of reality gives us the true nature of reality?

Whatever our perceptions are - is our reality, even at the expense of our perceptions being wrong.

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@Looking4Truth,

The word "truth" becomes pretty meaningless at this level of analysis. However,when physicists, for example, talk about a functional model like the Pauli exclusion principle ( which in essence implies that every fermion in the universe knows the state of every other) those meditators who have glimpsed the self-evident holistic nature of reality understand where that model is "coming from" as opposed to those who see it as a "weird" bit of mathematics. That agreed understanding is about as close as anybody is going to get to the word "truth".

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@Frank Apisa,

I was just curious. The video was 2 hours. My comments agreeing with JL were based on what I gleaned from the video. But, no, probably would not change our exchange.

Did you enjoy the play?

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@fresco,

Quote:

Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5301969)
A rhetorical question, but I'll answer it anyway.

That part of what may be called "my experience" which has transcended traditional dichotomies of what "is" and what "is not", by seeing the inextricable and transient nature of such polar conceptualization, is evidence in support of statements such as those cited above.

For non-mystical conclusions of the same nature as this, you might read Derrida's views on aporia, or Quine's views on language. But neither of these alternatives will be acceptable to that "Frank" who stubbornly clings to the side of his little pool shouting at the swimmers "oh yeh..what do they know" as they elegantly glide past.

Ahhh...sounds as though you are trying to say you do not know...without actually saying that.

Hey, no problem. Lots of people like to pretend they know what they don't.

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@igm,

Quote:

Frank, you say you have no idea of the true nature of reality and fresco quoted that reality is beyond conceptualization. Can you explain the difference between saying you have no idea and fresco quoting that reality is beyond concepts? I'd like to hear you say how 'your' view differs.

I do not know if the true nature of reality is beyond conceptualization. I am saying "I do not know."

I wonder how you and Fresco are so sure it is beyond conceptualization???

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

I wonder how you and Fresco are so sure it is beyond conceptualization???

I don't believe we did. Show me the quotes and I'll examine them.

Can you explain how you examine reality and come to the conclusion that you don't know?

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@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

Whatever our perceptions are - is our reality, even at the expense of our perceptions being wrong.

Divine revelation, ci???

C'mon...you can acknowledge that you do not know...if you do not know. You won't be sent to Hell if you do.

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@Frank Apisa,

I'm not playing your game. Not worth my time or effort.

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@IRFRANK,

The play was great, Frank.

Nancy and I support amateur productions whenever possible.

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@igm,

Quote:

I don't believe we did. Show me the quotes and I'll examine them.

Here is what YOU wrote to me up above.

Quote:

Frank, you say you have no idea of the true nature of reality and fresco quoted that reality is beyond conceptualization. Can you explain the difference between saying you have no idea and fresco quoting that reality is beyond concepts? I'd like to hear you say how 'your' view differs.

That is where I got it from.

Unless you are saying Fresco is quoting nonsense...and you are agreeing with it.

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I want to stress that Frank says--correct me if I'm wrong, Frank--not that HE doesn't know because of his private ignorance; he doesn't know for the same reason that all of us do not know. He is a skeptic and that's a perfectly acceptable "school" of thought. I only regret that he is not able to benefit from the intuitive "hunches" of his more "mystical" colleagues on A2K.

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Where is the self? How can dualism stand if it's just a fiction?

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